(UPDATED MAY 1, 2008 with additional comments retrieved from cached version)
I found a cached version of the article with comments up until Monday afternoon. Here is the complete list of comments for those who are interested (at least the ones the Vancouver Sun chose to post since they didn't post mine):
COMMENTS ON THIS STORY
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Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 02:13 PM
Your list missed one myth: Vancouver prices are high because Vancouver is now a "World Class" city. This is marketing non-sense created by the real estate community. Where are the world-class banking, stock exchange, high-tech, and entertainment industries? And how about world-class salaries to go along with the new world-class status? All non-existent.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 03:08 PM
On the bright side of things: I am on a mailing list which notifies me of new listings, listing changes..etc in the under 650K in Richmond
. For the past several months it has been the usual new listing or two every few days, but today I was delighted to see three very nice price reductions!
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 03:19 PM
Why not have an economist on your panel of experts who doesn't have a conflict of interest. The Vancouver Sun is contributing to financial ruin of many BC families who have overstreched themselves with unrealisitic mortgage tools (40 year mortgage etc). Over a 100% return on investment in 5 years for every property in Vnacouver - Look at history.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 03:27 PM
This is classic - one of the biggest pieces of real estate propaganda you guys have put together in a long time - real estate blogs are laughing hysterically Asking Cameron Muir his opinion on the real estate market is like asking the tobacco companies if cigarettes cause cancer Good for you guys though -keep the real estate advertising dollars rolling in while you can - journalistic integrity is overrated anyways
Happy Renter in North Vancouver
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 03:42 PM
The greater fool theory prevails... I remember stock investors buying technology stocks in 1999 were also "extremely sophisticated"... about this "space". There will soon be a "greatest fool" who buys at the very top.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 03:50 PM
What a bafflingly biased report. I'm shocked that the Vancouver Sun is not forced to print "advertisement" on the top of the page containing this information. Among the more humorous contentious points is that they don't even answer whether 3 out of the 15 "myths or realities" are either a myth of reality. It is unfortunate that more people don't know how to read graphs to interpret data. This report is nothing more than a promotional pamphlet for the realty industry. I'm counting the days until the Vancouver Sun runs as its headline "Vancouver Housing Market Crashes, House Prices Fall" Cheers, I'm looking forward to buying your foreclosed property.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 05:20 PM
Economies run in cycles, there will and is going to be an adjustment in the Real Estate market. Of course individuals and companies that invest or have a vested interest in real estate are NOT going to say other....duh. Take a look at the MLS....the change is happening as we speak. With regards to Canada, BC and Alberta will feel the effects of the US eco. / Global eco. last and it won't be as sever as eastern Canada but don't be fooled......we will feel it. A correction is much need for our economy to reach a balance.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 08:01 PM
What a terribly biased piece of reporting. The SUN should be ashamed to print useless reports like this. Where are all the non-biased interviews and opinions? Oh wait, I understand now... I just had to scroll down a bit further to see the giant add for Wall center False Creek. I guess we know who paid for this one.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 08:13 PM
Some of these comments are a bit harsh. I do think more articles should be done giving advice to first time home buyers in this crazy market. I got into it just as it started in the condo market. I just about doubled my money in five years. I am not sure how first timers are going to be able to ride the wave.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 08:15 PM
Vancouver Sun, you've sold any journalistic integrity yo had to the highest bidder, the local real estate industry. You've become their mouthpiece to defeat any notion of possible lower prices, because once that notion tkes hold, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy - shame on you!
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 08:37 PM
Wait until a recession hits officially in the US; then buy. Buying now will lead to one thing... negative equity!
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 09:27 PM
Every time a real esate related column is published the forum posts are full of people whining about the market. Complaining the city is no good, the prices are inflated, and people are stupid to buy. These armchair quarterbacks will be renting forever and if they don't like it here move away. Keep on waiting for prices to drop and the sky to fall.
Sat, Apr 26, 08 at 10:02 PM
Wow. I was unaware that real estate agents/mortgage brokers had such a huge share of stock in the Vancouver Sun Company. Anyhow....keep the nonsensical dribble coming and expect a 30-50% reduction in real estate prices in Greater Vancouver over the next three to five years. Condos will be hardest hit.
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 12:48 AM
None of these commenters has had any factual information to add, just a lot of hysteria over the general sentiment that the sky is about to fall. Well, the Sun article showed us the basic facts from the the property information records. All else is speculation. Kudos to the Sun for cutting through the vested interests and bringing us the real goods.
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 06:56 AM
Fools. Perception is reality. Got it. Line up, buy up, but don't tell a soul you want to get out until you are.
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 12:03 PM
You know, I honestly think it's a good time to take your profits and go rent for a few years while prices shift downwards, but at the same time, I applaud the Sun for actually publishing the comments of all these Chicken Little types who think making money in real estate is somehow evil, and that telling people how makes the Sun a mouthpiece for realtors. Seriously, anyone who didn't see these high prices coming three years ago, or saw them coming but didn't move heaven and earth to take advantage of them, is the real fool. I sold everything I owned to raise enough to put down a tiny deposit on a tiny bachelor suite in a crappy part of town - and it only took two years to turn that into a 4BR townhouse in the burbs for no raise in my mortgage. So I'm a fool? Hell no - if prices drop, I'm still well ahead of the game - unlike those 'noble' people who didn't plan ahead, kept renting, and now groan at The Sun for offering them advice on how to move up.
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 12:06 PM
And what if you who commented negatively about the information in the article are wrong? Someone did research which carries more weight than speculation. Are you so angry because you are not in the market?
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 12:07 PM
I think this article has real value. I just think maybe the sun needs to consider for the future that using 'research' from someone with a vested interest in an up market, might not be the kind of look they're going for if they want to be perceived as unbiased. for what its worth, I don't think the article is wrong. I think prices will keep going up. It happened in sydney before the last olympics - and afterwards too. Just don't overextend yourselves trying to get your piece, is the best advice of all.
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 12:45 PM
There is better analysis being done for free on the local real estate market by a little known financial planner who happens to agree with many of the "hysterical" commenters here. Lo and behold he has data to back up his arguments too. The Sun would do well to get a clue from an unbias source like him. Google - langley financial planning blog uberpost - to see what I mean.
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 02:57 PM
An assessment of the local real estate scene that fails to mention that inventory is about 25% higher than last year and sales are down is sort of like an article about Iraq that fails to mention that there's a war going on there. Well, not that bad, but it does make you wonder, as the above posts do, what side the Sun's bread is buttered on. A rising real estate market is good for no one except realtors and people who move away.
Sun, Apr 27, 08 at 08:05 PM
Whiner wrote: Every time a real esate related column is published the forum posts are full of people whining about the market. Complaining the city is no good, the prices are inflated, and people are stupid to buy. These armchair quarterbacks will be renting forever and if they don't like it here move away. Keep on waiting for prices to drop and the sky to fall. Who is whining? I feel that the general thread of the comments opposing the article are asking for a more unbiased source of information. It is irresponsible of The Sun to publish something that is soooo bias. I am an owner of a 1.5 million dollar property in Vancouver and am concerned about the over valuation. Sure on paper I look like a millionaire but that is only if I sell my 'pot of gold'...in the meantime I am paying out the *as in property taxes for a over valued piece of property. The economic climate is shifting and there is no unbias information that deals with that very real aspect of Real Estate. The sky isn't falling but it would be refreshing to get an accurate and unbiased weather forecast for once!!!!!
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 02:50 AM
Step 1 - Fire the moronic author of this article. Step 2 - Fire the editor for allowing such conflict of interest "journalistic" hype to be published week after week. Step 3 - Get it through your thick heads, Real estate agents are NOT unbiased "experts".
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 03:15 AM
I don't like to throw around accusations of bias because it begs the question of what would constitute "objective" reporting. It doesn't make things easier that Vancouver real estate is second only to religion as one of those topics in which all sides claim to know the "real" truth. What frustrates me about the Sun coverage is how unwilling it is to acknowledge the uncertainties in the market and the level of risk involved in buying in. Reading these articles, real estate always comes across as a can't-lose proposition available to everyone. Yeah, everyone except those unable to spare 80% of their income to own a home. Even the most bullish investor will tell you that there is risk in this market.
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 04:20 AM
The funniest part of the article has to be this part: "...Generally though, British Columbians, and Lower Mainlanders in particular, are pretty savvy about their property, the experts believe, with so much information out there about real estate, between Real Estate Weekly, the real-estate sections in newspapers, the realtors' Multiple Listing Service posted online and Home and Garden TV...." Reading the hype in the New Homes section of the Vancouver Sun makes you real estate savvy! Good thing I have a subscription. Everyone has access to the Real Estate Board's MLS service so that means we are all experts. I feel better now.
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 06:31 AM
Just want to add my voice to the outcry against this false journalism. Its now obvious who the Vancouver Sun works for. Thanks.
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 11:30 AM
It would be hard to imagine a more biased article on RE, seriously. Lazy, irresponsible writing. As for people who think that asking Cameron Muir for his "expert" opinion equals doing research - please, check the source. That's like asking Bush how the war in Iraq is going - hey, he's President, he's just gotta be right! Now, if I was to look at the article as a glass half full, I guess I'd have to say thanks for the laughs... especially the bit about Lower Mainlanders being real estate savvy. That was pure gold!
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 12:06 PM
Your article was an insult to the intelligence of your readers, Truly disgusting.
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 12:33 PM
I cannot believe the lack of journalistic integrity here. Inventory levels in Vancouver have risen by over 25% to unprecedented levels. Sales are down 5-15% depending on where you look. There is an unprecedented number of buyers who are taking out 40-year mortgages. Prices have already flattened all over the Fraser Valley. Condo projects have stalled and banks are demanding more money down for existing project, all the while starts continue to be absurdly high. Canadian financial institutions have turned off the money pipe. Canada is on the brink of a recession. The world is in a credit crisis and we've entered an enormous deleveraging phase. Not to mention rampant inflation. And you wonder why people don't want rising prices? You think Real Estate will go up the next two years? I'll bet any money it wont. Perhaps the Sun should consider that, if prices do continue to rise forever, more and more bright young people will leave for more sane ground. The economy here will eventually be crushed (there is nothing here save Real Estate), and the longer this goes on, the worse it will be.
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 12:37 PM
Regarding: "[Lower Mainlanders] are pretty savvy about their property, the experts believe, with so much information out there about real estate ... the real-estate sections in newspapers..." How about during previous cycles? Was The Sun a source for unbiased real estate information before the 1981 crash??? "Price stability, rather than decline, would be expected for most of the housing stock . . . since underlying home ownership demand remains strong due to continued high immigration." (Frank Clayton, January 18th 1981 in the Sun.) The market crashed by about 50% over the following year. How many people had to walk away from their houses becasue they belived what they'd read in the newspaper?
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 12:57 PM
Rather than talk to "economists" from BCREA, why didn't they consult any of the economics or finance profs at SFU and UBC? I wonder how many of them have bought into the BC real estate market recently...
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 01:04 PM
Driving to work this morning... up Hudsons Street... I noticed 10 houses for sale between 57th and 47th avenue!! People are stupid if they think these prices are going to last... the market is crashing. Detached houses are moving very slowly!
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 01:17 PM
Myth 16: Real estate prices are still rising in Greater Vancouver. FALSE! - just wait for April's MLS stats to come out.... so far average detached prices and median homes prices are down nearly 3% this month. Average price is currently back under $899,000!
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 01:18 PM
Just something to ponder. Did anyone read that article about the Aquilini groups proposal to build a 23 story commercial tower in Downtown Vancouver?Apparently, the aquilini group had to pull the plug on the idea, as there was no commercial interest in the building... interesting... **Wasn't there an article in the Vancouver sun a few months ago saying that the commercial vacancy in the downtown core was at an all time low? Now, how can the proposal for a 23 story commercial tower dissolve if we have such low vacancy rates?? The article a few months ago made it seem as if businesses are clammering for new space. Who is telling the truth here? If vacancy rates are so low, shouldn't we be building more commercial space?
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 01:19 PM
The story does read more like an advertisement. 1. Buy before Albertans beat you to it. 2. Your home is worth more than assessment. 3. Real estate always goes up. 4. Buy your home now because it is spring. 5. If you are going to sell renovate first. 6. You don't need a swimming pool to sell. 7. ? This can't be right!?! 8. All houses appreciate equally. 9. People don't 'flip' condos. 10. Buying a money pit is a good thing. 11. Location doesn't matter. 12. If you already own buy more. 13. Make sure you use an agent. 14. Don't worry about the bank. 15. If your not rich you will be!
Mon, Apr 28, 08 at 01:42 PM
Condohype said: "What frustrates me about the Sun coverage is how unwilling it is to acknowledge the uncertainties in the market " The uncertainties exist in your mind. Go back to reading your negative blogs. "...and the level of risk involved in buying in. " No risk, no reward.
KevinMon, Apr 28, 08 at 02:17 PM
The Sun forgot to address the important factors that mean the market Is only going to keep up: - The Olympics - Everybody wants to move here - We're running out lof land - Buy now or be priced out forever - Rich foreign investors - This time it's different Everybody please ignore the past 30 years of Vancouver real estate history, and the Sun's/CMHC's/Realtors well documented abysmal prognostications printed before each previous downturn. My realtor told me that this is a new paradigm and we've now reached a permanently high plateau where financial valuation metrics are meaningless. Now if you would please excuse me;I must now head down to my realtor's office with my 40-year mortgage to cash in on my real estate lottery ticket!
hughzMon, Apr 28, 08 at 02:25 PM
CAL said: "The uncertainties exist in your mind. Go back to reading your negative blogs. "...and the level of risk involved in buying in. " No risk, no reward." No risk = no reward is the kind of truism the RE industry pumps out on a daily basis in Vancouver...the point is that RE at the moment most likely entails more risk than other assets with similar returns.
BewilderedMon, Apr 28, 08 at 02:26 PM
Why didn't the Vancouver Sun put this graph in: http://www.nvcondos.realpagemaker.com/a ... aPageId=32
Inventory is taking off kike a rocket like never before and sales are falling. This data is straight from the real estate board.Given what is happening in our own market and the U.S., the market is slowing down quickly. At least that is what my realtor is telling me when I ask him why my house has not old yet.
TomMon, Apr 28, 08 at 03:34 PM
What cracks me up is at the foot of this article, below the comments is a Google ad titled "BC Foreclosure Listings". Expect to see a lot more of these in the next couple of years! As for the graphs each spike has a downturn immediately afterwards. We are currently at the top of the spike. The prices won't go to 10 years ago prices, but they will stop rising so fast and will then adjust to a more sustainable level. Buy now and you risk negative equity, apart from the fact that is a 500 sq ft condo you'll grow out of within a couple of years really worth $350,000? The other fantastically bad bit in this article was that you should charge rent at a 10th of your property price. With ave condos at around $400,000 does that mean renters should pay $4000 a month!! Way to destroy a city and drive out the people who keep it running.
RE-ALISTMon, Apr 28, 08 at 04:22 PM
I'm in agreement with almost all of the criticism from the RE realists above. There are so many points to make about this article it'd require a two page-spread retort. Here's a sample: The article states: "12. Buying an additional property to rent out is a solid investment" and judges this to be a "Reality". It then points out that "The rule of thumb used to be that you would aim to charge a rent that was one per cent of the purchase price ($1,000 a month for a $100,000 condo, for example). " SO, why does the article not then go on to point out that the current ratio for Vancouver, instead of 100:1 is between 300:1 and 500:1 ? Perhaps because this would lead to people concluding the truth, namely that property prices in Vancouver are more than THREE TIMES what they should be based on historic norms. There is a crash coming, and The Sun can be blamed for keeping its readers woefully uneducated in this regard.
KarlMon, Apr 28, 08 at 04:33 PM
You cant win if you dont play
moniqueMon, Apr 28, 08 at 05:31 PM
Can anyone give me some price figures of a good condo (close to UBC). I live in Europe and have no idea of your market, but I intend to buy or to rent close to UBC, something nice, modern, etc...What are the best zones in VANCOUVER?