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VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:49 am

VanBullBear wrote:
eyesthebye2 wrote:
Canada needs immigration and I think you would agree that rich immigrants are better than poor immigrants that stress our social assistance resources.


I'll take middle class immigrant over the rich ones - they make for better neighbours and are generally not tax evaders

Money laundering, tax evasion, multi-million dollar owners in welfare is like cancer to the system.
I really hope David Eby and his team can clean house.

You are pinning your hopes on a tax that is called a speculation tax, but does nothing to combat speculation.  Sayanything John is extremely corrupt and apparently David Eby isn't much better.  I have some reliable sources that know the two of them.
I think we all agree on the problem, but none of the governments have done anything to clean it up.  It does require all three levels of government to work together
e.g. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but Burnaby doesn't. 
Provincial Government is trying new measures which will have their own set of loopholes to exploit, while the Feds don't seem to grasp or care to grasp any of these problems and take steps to close the holes in our tax system..I'll just repeat my post from the other topic, which seems to be crashing the board when I posted

The CRA can do all the investigating they want, but they have no teeth to go after someone in Canada let alone in a foreign country.

I'm guessing they got around foreign buyers tax, the empty homes tax and would have used equally evasive maneuvers to get around the speculation tax too.

And this is why a 30% withholding tax would be the best way to attack the money laundering and tax evasion problem that is driving a free for all in speculation.  Just do it on all real estate sales including any contract assignments.  Any Canadian Resident using as their primary residence could just file a tax form to have the money released within a few weeks of the completion.
Any real estate owned by a shell company, corporation or whatever other Joyful organization should automatically not qualify for a PR exemption and be forced to claim the capital gain.
Why is this so difficult...instead we invent new taxes and build a whole new set of administrative challenges and loopholes, while our existing laws are exploited.
 

 
User avatar
SethM
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:32 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:03 pm

VanLord wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:
eyesthebye2 wrote:

I'll take middle class immigrant over the rich ones - they make for better neighbours and are generally not tax evaders

Money laundering, tax evasion, multi-million dollar owners in welfare is like cancer to the system.
I really hope David Eby and his team can clean house.

You are pinning your hopes on a tax that is called a speculation tax, but does nothing to combat speculation.  Sayanything John is extremely corrupt and apparently David Eby isn't much better.  I have some reliable sources that know the two of them.
I think we all agree on the problem, but none of the governments have done anything to clean it up.  It does require all three levels of government to work together
e.g. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but Burnaby doesn't. 
Provincial Government is trying new measures which will have their own set of loopholes to exploit, while the Feds don't seem to grasp or care to grasp any of these problems and take steps to close the holes in our tax system..I'll just repeat my post from the other topic, which seems to be crashing the board when I posted

The CRA can do all the investigating they want, but they have no teeth to go after someone in Canada let alone in a foreign country.

I'm guessing they got around foreign buyers tax, the empty homes tax and would have used equally evasive maneuvers to get around the speculation tax too.

And this is why a 30% withholding tax would be the best way to attack the money laundering and tax evasion problem that is driving a free for all in speculation.  Just do it on all real estate sales including any contract assignments.  Any Canadian Resident using as their primary residence could just file a tax form to have the money released within a few weeks of the completion.
Any real estate owned by a shell company, corporation or whatever other Joyful organization should automatically not qualify for a PR exemption and be forced to claim the capital gain.
Why is this so difficult...instead we invent new taxes and build a whole new set of administrative challenges and loopholes, while our existing laws are exploited.
 



CRA is scared of pursuing any tax evaders with a Chinese name because they don't want to appear racist.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-es ... e31802994/

A CRA auditor who came forward to The Globe with concerns about enforcement said that that is barely scratching the surface of the dodging going on. "CRA will catch very few people, because the [inexperienced] auditors … have no idea of foreign income and how individuals hide income," says the auditor, who requested anonymity, for fear of being fired.

"Management has known of this issue for at least three years but did not want to pursue the real-estate flips, because most of the auditees were Chinese in descent. They were scared of being racist … I can confirm this fact, based on meetings held."
 
eyesthebye2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:41 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:00 pm

SethM wrote:
VanLord wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:
Money laundering, tax evasion, multi-million dollar owners in welfare is like cancer to the system.
I really hope David Eby and his team can clean house.

You are pinning your hopes on a tax that is called a speculation tax, but does nothing to combat speculation.  Sayanything John is extremely corrupt and apparently David Eby isn't much better.  I have some reliable sources that know the two of them.
I think we all agree on the problem, but none of the governments have done anything to clean it up.  It does require all three levels of government to work together
e.g. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but Burnaby doesn't. 
Provincial Government is trying new measures which will have their own set of loopholes to exploit, while the Feds don't seem to grasp or care to grasp any of these problems and take steps to close the holes in our tax system..I'll just repeat my post from the other topic, which seems to be crashing the board when I posted

The CRA can do all the investigating they want, but they have no teeth to go after someone in Canada let alone in a foreign country.

I'm guessing they got around foreign buyers tax, the empty homes tax and would have used equally evasive maneuvers to get around the speculation tax too.

And this is why a 30% withholding tax would be the best way to attack the money laundering and tax evasion problem that is driving a free for all in speculation.  Just do it on all real estate sales including any contract assignments.  Any Canadian Resident using as their primary residence could just file a tax form to have the money released within a few weeks of the completion.
Any real estate owned by a shell company, corporation or whatever other Joyful organization should automatically not qualify for a PR exemption and be forced to claim the capital gain.
Why is this so difficult...instead we invent new taxes and build a whole new set of administrative challenges and loopholes, while our existing laws are exploited.
 



CRA is scared of pursuing any tax evaders with a Chinese name because they don't want to appear racist.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-es ... e31802994/

A CRA auditor who came forward to The Globe with concerns about enforcement said that that is barely scratching the surface of the dodging going on. "CRA will catch very few people, because the [inexperienced] auditors … have no idea of foreign income and how individuals hide income," says the auditor, who requested anonymity, for fear of being fired.

"Management has known of this issue for at least three years but did not want to pursue the real-estate flips, because most of the auditees were Chinese in descent. They were scared of being racist … I can confirm this fact, based on meetings held."


Simple fix. Hire auditors that are also Chinese
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:53 pm

eyesthebye2 wrote:
SethM wrote:
VanLord wrote:
You are pinning your hopes on a tax that is called a speculation tax, but does nothing to combat speculation.  Sayanything John is extremely corrupt and apparently David Eby isn't much better.  I have some reliable sources that know the two of them.
I think we all agree on the problem, but none of the governments have done anything to clean it up.  It does require all three levels of government to work together
e.g. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but Burnaby doesn't. 
Provincial Government is trying new measures which will have their own set of loopholes to exploit, while the Feds don't seem to grasp or care to grasp any of these problems and take steps to close the holes in our tax system..I'll just repeat my post from the other topic, which seems to be crashing the board when I posted



CRA is scared of pursuing any tax evaders with a Chinese name because they don't want to appear racist.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-es ... e31802994/

A CRA auditor who came forward to The Globe with concerns about enforcement said that that is barely scratching the surface of the dodging going on. "CRA will catch very few people, because the [inexperienced] auditors … have no idea of foreign income and how individuals hide income," says the auditor, who requested anonymity, for fear of being fired.

"Management has known of this issue for at least three years but did not want to pursue the real-estate flips, because most of the auditees were Chinese in descent. They were scared of being racist … I can confirm this fact, based on meetings held."


Simple fix. Hire auditors that are also Chinese

True, but I bet they already have a decent cross section of different races working at the CRA, and Chinese would be a significant number...Chinese are typically extremely talented in Accounting and Finance which should have a good aptitude for CRA auditors.
Also didn't think that catching tax cheats had anything to do with Race, how about catch one or two big ones and make an example out of them as a start.  
 
rofina
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:39 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:00 am

SethM wrote:
VanLord wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:
Money laundering, tax evasion, multi-million dollar owners in welfare is like cancer to the system.
I really hope David Eby and his team can clean house.

You are pinning your hopes on a tax that is called a speculation tax, but does nothing to combat speculation.  Sayanything John is extremely corrupt and apparently David Eby isn't much better.  I have some reliable sources that know the two of them.
I think we all agree on the problem, but none of the governments have done anything to clean it up.  It does require all three levels of government to work together
e.g. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but Burnaby doesn't. 
Provincial Government is trying new measures which will have their own set of loopholes to exploit, while the Feds don't seem to grasp or care to grasp any of these problems and take steps to close the holes in our tax system..I'll just repeat my post from the other topic, which seems to be crashing the board when I posted

The CRA can do all the investigating they want, but they have no teeth to go after someone in Canada let alone in a foreign country.

I'm guessing they got around foreign buyers tax, the empty homes tax and would have used equally evasive maneuvers to get around the speculation tax too.

And this is why a 30% withholding tax would be the best way to attack the money laundering and tax evasion problem that is driving a free for all in speculation.  Just do it on all real estate sales including any contract assignments.  Any Canadian Resident using as their primary residence could just file a tax form to have the money released within a few weeks of the completion.
Any real estate owned by a shell company, corporation or whatever other Joyful organization should automatically not qualify for a PR exemption and be forced to claim the capital gain.
Why is this so difficult...instead we invent new taxes and build a whole new set of administrative challenges and loopholes, while our existing laws are exploited.
 



CRA is scared of pursuing any tax evaders with a Chinese name because they don't want to appear racist.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-es ... e31802994/

A CRA auditor who came forward to The Globe with concerns about enforcement said that that is barely scratching the surface of the dodging going on. "CRA will catch very few people, because the [inexperienced] auditors … have no idea of foreign income and how individuals hide income," says the auditor, who requested anonymity, for fear of being fired.

"Management has known of this issue for at least three years but did not want to pursue the real-estate flips, because most of the auditees were Chinese in descent. They were scared of being racist … I can confirm this fact, based on meetings held."

This is the PC left tearing itself apart.
On a balance of scales what sounds more damaging? Appearing racist, even though its a ridiculous proposition in this instance, or doing real damage to society by not pursuing tax cheats that significantly impact our daily lives?
 
Justice
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:14 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:46 pm

VanLord wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:
eyesthebye2 wrote:

I'll take middle class immigrant over the rich ones - they make for better neighbours and are generally not tax evaders

Money laundering, tax evasion, multi-million dollar owners in welfare is like cancer to the system.
I really hope David Eby and his team can clean house.

You are pinning your hopes on a tax that is called a speculation tax, but does nothing to combat speculation.  Sayanything John is extremely corrupt and apparently David Eby isn't much better.  I have some reliable sources that know the two of them.
I think we all agree on the problem, but none of the governments have done anything to clean it up.  It does require all three levels of government to work together
e.g. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but Burnaby doesn't. 
Provincial Government is trying new measures which will have their own set of loopholes to exploit, while the Feds don't seem to grasp or care to grasp any of these problems and take steps to close the holes in our tax system..I'll just repeat my post from the other topic, which seems to be crashing the board when I posted

The CRA can do all the investigating they want, but they have no teeth to go after someone in Canada let alone in a foreign country.

I'm guessing they got around foreign buyers tax, the empty homes tax and would have used equally evasive maneuvers to get around the speculation tax too.

And this is why a 30% withholding tax would be the best way to attack the money laundering and tax evasion problem that is driving a free for all in speculation.  Just do it on all real estate sales including any contract assignments.  Any Canadian Resident using as their primary residence could just file a tax form to have the money released within a few weeks of the completion.
Any real estate owned by a shell company, corporation or whatever other Joyful organization should automatically not qualify for a PR exemption and be forced to claim the capital gain.
Why is this so difficult...instead we invent new taxes and build a whole new set of administrative challenges and loopholes, while our existing laws are exploited.
 



Sorry but your post comes across as just another real estate industry player shilling for the BC Liberals.  They have nobody but themselves to blame for letting the housing market get completely overheated and out of control.  The NDP plan might not be perfect but at least it is a start and they're doing something.  Maybe at your next BC Liberal constituency meeting you should pass on the newsflash that voters are tired of a party that governs for developers and offshore buyers.
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:22 pm

Justice wrote:
VanLord wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:
Money laundering, tax evasion, multi-million dollar owners in welfare is like cancer to the system.
I really hope David Eby and his team can clean house.

You are pinning your hopes on a tax that is called a speculation tax, but does nothing to combat speculation.  Sayanything John is extremely corrupt and apparently David Eby isn't much better.  I have some reliable sources that know the two of them.
I think we all agree on the problem, but none of the governments have done anything to clean it up.  It does require all three levels of government to work together
e.g. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but Burnaby doesn't. 
Provincial Government is trying new measures which will have their own set of loopholes to exploit, while the Feds don't seem to grasp or care to grasp any of these problems and take steps to close the holes in our tax system..I'll just repeat my post from the other topic, which seems to be crashing the board when I posted

The CRA can do all the investigating they want, but they have no teeth to go after someone in Canada let alone in a foreign country.

I'm guessing they got around foreign buyers tax, the empty homes tax and would have used equally evasive maneuvers to get around the speculation tax too.

And this is why a 30% withholding tax would be the best way to attack the money laundering and tax evasion problem that is driving a free for all in speculation.  Just do it on all real estate sales including any contract assignments.  Any Canadian Resident using as their primary residence could just file a tax form to have the money released within a few weeks of the completion.
Any real estate owned by a shell company, corporation or whatever other Joyful organization should automatically not qualify for a PR exemption and be forced to claim the capital gain.
Why is this so difficult...instead we invent new taxes and build a whole new set of administrative challenges and loopholes, while our existing laws are exploited.
 



Sorry but your post comes across as just another real estate industry player shilling for the BC Liberals.  They have nobody but themselves to blame for letting the housing market get completely overheated and out of control.  The NDP plan might not be perfect but at least it is a start and they're doing something.  Maybe at your next BC Liberal constituency meeting you should pass on the newsflash that voters are tired of a party that governs for developers and offshore buyers.

You might want to read my other posts, I've said several times that I agreed the Liberals deserved to get booted out.  I've also agreed that there is a problem that needs to be solved.  My argument is that the Speculation Tax isn't going to solve the problem of speculation, since its really an Asset Tax against empty homes.  I've offered up several ways that I think we could solve the problem, but no one has any comments on those ideas.  I think they make logical sense and would stop the foreign buyers from walking away with all the profits and none of the taxes.  So far the only argument I've heard back is "At least the NDP is trying something".  To which I replied (and many others agree and have replied similarly) that I believe this will do more damage than good.  I'm happy that Carol James has admitted that they need to go back and work on this some more.  Let's see what it looks like in the end, but it still hits the wrong people and does nothing to target speculation, flipping, pre-sale assignments and the whole issue of using numbered companies to obfuscate the people involved in the real estate transactions, while allowing a whole underground market of BC Real Estate trading to occur in foreign countries.
I've never voted Liberal or Conservative and will try not to vote that way in the future and have always voted NDP until this past election.  I did warn my wife that a vote for the Greens was a vote for the NDP (I do dislike John Horgan and dislike the way the NDP have veered further left in the past few years), but we are in a strong NDP riding anyways, so it didn't actually matter that we voted Green #facepalm.  You might want to remember that the governing party technically lost the election, and if the vote were held today, the Greens would lose a ton of votes and the Liberals would most likely re-gain power, especially with Christy Clark out of the picture, although I don't think they picked a good leader.  Oh well at least its not Ontario, the race between Terrible and Worse.
 
eyesthebye2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:41 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:31 pm

So if you rent your property out you're exempt from the tax?
What bullshit.
If these cheaters can come up with phoney owners they will most certainly be able to show phoney renters. Govt gave cheaters a loophole
 
VanBullBear
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:21 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:56 pm

eyesthebye2 wrote:
So if you rent your property out you're exempt from the tax?
What bullshit.
If these cheaters can come up with phoney owners they will most certainly be able to show phoney renters. Govt gave cheaters a loophole


I was thinking of this.... however if they use phony renters they have to pay income tax out of their own pocket without rental income.

The question is does CRA cross check the income taxes against the list of homes with exempted speculator tax.
 
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SethM
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:32 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:28 pm

VanBullBear wrote:
eyesthebye2 wrote:
So if you rent your property out you're exempt from the tax?
What bullshit.
If these cheaters can come up with phoney owners they will most certainly be able to show phoney renters. Govt gave cheaters a loophole


I was thinking of this.... however if they use phony renters they have to pay income tax out of their own pocket without rental income.

The question is does CRA cross check the income taxes against the list of homes with exempted speculator tax.

What if I give you a cheap rent like $100 a month? Expenses would exceed revenues. No tax payable. I could write a lease to cover expenses and depreciation expense. No tax payable.
 
VanBullBear
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:21 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:15 pm

$100 per month rent? you don't think that will flag CRA if they are actually checking.
Again, I don't know if they are checking or not, but this should be a simple filter in the database.
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:00 pm

eyesthebye2 wrote:
So if you rent your property out you're exempt from the tax?
What bullshit.
If these cheaters can come up with phoney owners they will most certainly be able to show phoney renters. Govt gave cheaters a loophole

Weren't you paying attention?  The whole point was to tax houses that were empty.  
Did you think everyone who owns more than one property was going to be hit?  or just hit everyone who owns a property with the tax?
But you are correct the cheaters will continue to find ways to cheat, kinda my point all along that we should work on fixing the existing loopholes rather than inventing new taxes that create a whole bunch of admin work, but miss on the actual intent of the tax.
 
eyesthebye2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:41 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:03 pm

VanBullBear wrote:
eyesthebye2 wrote:
So if you rent your property out you're exempt from the tax?
What bullshit.
If these cheaters can come up with phoney owners they will most certainly be able to show phoney renters. Govt gave cheaters a loophole


I was thinking of this.... however if they use phony renters they have to pay income tax out of their own pocket without rental income.

The question is does CRA cross check the income taxes against the list of homes with exempted speculator tax.


The answer to this is that CRA is useless.
If they start dishing out jail time for tax evasion then people might obey the law
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:27 am

eyesthebye2 wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:
eyesthebye2 wrote:
So if you rent your property out you're exempt from the tax?
What bullshit.
If these cheaters can come up with phoney owners they will most certainly be able to show phoney renters. Govt gave cheaters a loophole


I was thinking of this.... however if they use phony renters they have to pay income tax out of their own pocket without rental income.

The question is does CRA cross check the income taxes against the list of homes with exempted speculator tax.


The answer to this is that CRA is useless.
If they start dishing out jail time for tax evasion then people might obey the law

Lots of articles like these out there these days.  I guess retirees spending 5 months a year is a bad thing now...can you imagine if they US were to do the same thing to Canadians down south.
http://www.moneysense.ca/news/retirees- ... ax-unfair/
 
reallyreal2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:30 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:02 am

VanLord wrote:
eyesthebye2 wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:

I was thinking of this.... however if they use phony renters they have to pay income tax out of their own pocket without rental income.

The question is does CRA cross check the income taxes against the list of homes with exempted speculator tax.


The answer to this is that CRA is useless.
If they start dishing out jail time for tax evasion then people might obey the law

Lots of articles like these out there these days.  I guess retirees spending 5 months a year is a bad thing now...can you imagine if they US were to do the same thing to Canadians down south.
http://www.moneysense.ca/news/retirees- ... ax-unfair/

Vanlord - Is there anywhere in the US where housing is so unaffordable that people can't afford to own in the city without living in slumlike conditions?
We have a unique problem that requires unique solutions.  I am not saying that the solutions are right or wrong but you can't compare Vancouver to the US and say we are anti business or anti investment.  At some point, we have to take care of the people that actually live and contribute here.  

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