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rofina
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:39 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:33 pm

reallyreal2 wrote:
Squeeking wheels.

Not sure anybody has too much sympathy for people that don't pay tax in BC with multiple properties with one sitting empty.

Sure.
But what about all the BCers that have vacation homes that may now incur this in some shape or form.
I find two qualities of this tax patently absurd:
- It applies to other Canadian provinces.
- It potentially applies to BC residents with a vacation home.
I completely disagree with punishing successful Canadians for owning vacation homes in BC. That does not catch the intended target in my mind at all.  
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:37 pm

reallyreal2 wrote:
Squeeking wheels.

Not sure anybody has too much sympathy for people that don't pay tax in BC with multiple properties with one sitting empty.

I guess you didn't read the article or the Min of Finance Info sheet.
 
VanBullBear
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:21 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:49 pm

rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
Squeeking wheels.

Not sure anybody has too much sympathy for people that don't pay tax in BC with multiple properties with one sitting empty.

Sure.
But what about all the BCers that have vacation homes that may now incur this in some shape or form.
I find two qualities of this tax patently absurd:
- It applies to other Canadian provinces.
- It potentially applies to BC residents with a vacation home.
I completely disagree with punishing successful Canadians for owning vacation homes in BC. That does not catch the intended target in my mind at all.  

There is a housing crisis. While you have a point that it sucks for those Canadians with vacation homes... the world's smallest violin is playing for them.
You can't please everyone, there will be collateral damage. You can't make any meaningful change if you want to keep everyone happy.
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:56 pm

VanBullBear wrote:
rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
Squeeking wheels.

Not sure anybody has too much sympathy for people that don't pay tax in BC with multiple properties with one sitting empty.

Sure.
But what about all the BCers that have vacation homes that may now incur this in some shape or form.
I find two qualities of this tax patently absurd:
- It applies to other Canadian provinces.
- It potentially applies to BC residents with a vacation home.
I completely disagree with punishing successful Canadians for owning vacation homes in BC. That does not catch the intended target in my mind at all.  

There is a housing crisis. While you have a point that it sucks for those Canadians with vacation homes... the world's smallest violin is playing for them.
You can't please everyone, there will be collateral damage. You can't make any meaningful change if you want to keep everyone happy.

I guess you didn't read the article either.  This will actually hit BC tax payers too..READ THE ARTICLE!
 
reallyreal2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:30 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:27 am

VanLord wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
Squeeking wheels.

Not sure anybody has too much sympathy for people that don't pay tax in BC with multiple properties with one sitting empty.

I guess you didn't read the article or the Min of Finance Info sheet.

I read it.  
Like I said, I don't have sympathy for people that, like the article said, have a $1M recreational property with $100K in income - LOL.

Sell the property or pay the tax - it's simple.  There is no devine right to own a recreational property.  Seriously, how tone deaf do people have to be?  What's next, people complaining about a yacht tax?  I'm sure everybody will rally to your side!
 
rofina
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:39 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:30 am

reallyreal2 wrote:
VanLord wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
Squeeking wheels.

Not sure anybody has too much sympathy for people that don't pay tax in BC with multiple properties with one sitting empty.

I guess you didn't read the article or the Min of Finance Info sheet.

I read it.  
Like I said, I don't have sympathy for people that, like the article said, have a $1M recreational property with $100K in income - LOL.

Sell the property or pay the tax - it's simple.  There is no devine right to own a recreational property.  Seriously, how tone deaf do people have to be?  What's next, people complaining about a yacht tax?  I'm sure everybody will rally to your side!

Sweet Lord, this is a twisted world view.

You think everyone successful just steals money? You don't think personal sacrifice plays into this at all? How do you suppose you put yourself in the position to own rec property? How did this turn into a witch hunt to find and punish successful Canadians?!

This is the most twisted logic ever - because the Liberals allowed international money launderers to ruin our housing stock, we now must punish successful Canadians? 
This is an antithesis to a solution.
 
rofina
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:39 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:36 am

VanBullBear wrote:
rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
Squeeking wheels.

Not sure anybody has too much sympathy for people that don't pay tax in BC with multiple properties with one sitting empty.

Sure.
But what about all the BCers that have vacation homes that may now incur this in some shape or form.
I find two qualities of this tax patently absurd:
- It applies to other Canadian provinces.
- It potentially applies to BC residents with a vacation home.
I completely disagree with punishing successful Canadians for owning vacation homes in BC. That does not catch the intended target in my mind at all.  

There is a housing crisis. While you have a point that it sucks for those Canadians with vacation homes... the world's smallest violin is playing for them.
You can't please everyone, there will be collateral damage. You can't make any meaningful change if you want to keep everyone happy.

I respect your opinion, but disagree. There is a very simple way to avoid collateral damage - apply the tax the way it was promised. BC income tax payer exempt. Period. No tax credit scheme, just exempt. Extend the same to rest of Canada. Catch everyone else! 
 
eyesthebye2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1206
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:41 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:11 am

You think everyone successful just steals money?


I believe that the more money you have, the greater the chance you cheated or stole to have it. There are some that did it honestly, but we sure are overrepresented in the dirty ones here in Vancouver.
 
reallyreal2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:30 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:46 pm

rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
VanLord wrote:
I guess you didn't read the article or the Min of Finance Info sheet.

I read it.  
Like I said, I don't have sympathy for people that, like the article said, have a $1M recreational property with $100K in income - LOL.

Sell the property or pay the tax - it's simple.  There is no devine right to own a recreational property.  Seriously, how tone deaf do people have to be?  What's next, people complaining about a yacht tax?  I'm sure everybody will rally to your side!

Sweet Lord, this is a twisted world view.

You think everyone successful just steals money? You don't think personal sacrifice plays into this at all? How do you suppose you put yourself in the position to own rec property? How did this turn into a witch hunt to find and punish successful Canadians?!

This is the most twisted logic ever - because the Liberals allowed international money launderers to ruin our housing stock, we now must punish successful Canadians? 
This is an antithesis to a solution.

Sorry - where did I say people steal money?
If a few Canadians get captured under this tax, oh well.  Again, if you can afford a $1M recreational property, you can afford the tax.
 
reallyreal2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:30 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:50 pm

VanLord wrote:
VanBullBear wrote:
rofina wrote:
Sure.
But what about all the BCers that have vacation homes that may now incur this in some shape or form.
I find two qualities of this tax patently absurd:
- It applies to other Canadian provinces.
- It potentially applies to BC residents with a vacation home.
I completely disagree with punishing successful Canadians for owning vacation homes in BC. That does not catch the intended target in my mind at all.  

There is a housing crisis. While you have a point that it sucks for those Canadians with vacation homes... the world's smallest violin is playing for them.
You can't please everyone, there will be collateral damage. You can't make any meaningful change if you want to keep everyone happy.

I guess you didn't read the article either.  This will actually hit BC tax payers too..READ THE ARTICLE!

Let it hit the BC tax payers.  LOL
People seem to want everything all the time.  
 
rofina
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:39 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:53 pm

reallyreal2 wrote:
rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
I read it.  
Like I said, I don't have sympathy for people that, like the article said, have a $1M recreational property with $100K in income - LOL.

Sell the property or pay the tax - it's simple.  There is no devine right to own a recreational property.  Seriously, how tone deaf do people have to be?  What's next, people complaining about a yacht tax?  I'm sure everybody will rally to your side!

Sweet Lord, this is a twisted world view.

You think everyone successful just steals money? You don't think personal sacrifice plays into this at all? How do you suppose you put yourself in the position to own rec property? How did this turn into a witch hunt to find and punish successful Canadians?!

This is the most twisted logic ever - because the Liberals allowed international money launderers to ruin our housing stock, we now must punish successful Canadians? 
This is an antithesis to a solution.

Sorry - where did I say people steal money?
If a few Canadians get captured under this tax, oh well.  Again, if you can afford a $1M recreational property, you can afford the tax.

You did not say that - you implied a lack of sympathy. The only way I would not be sympathetic to someone is if they had gotten their wealth through shady means. To imply no sympathy is to either admit jealousy or worse.  
This is a way to punish success. 
This doesn't end well for one group, I can promise you given enough push back the ones being truly hurt wont be the rich shady ones. 
 
reallyreal2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:30 am

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:02 pm

rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
rofina wrote:
Sweet Lord, this is a twisted world view.

You think everyone successful just steals money? You don't think personal sacrifice plays into this at all? How do you suppose you put yourself in the position to own rec property? How did this turn into a witch hunt to find and punish successful Canadians?!

This is the most twisted logic ever - because the Liberals allowed international money launderers to ruin our housing stock, we now must punish successful Canadians? 
This is an antithesis to a solution.

Sorry - where did I say people steal money?
If a few Canadians get captured under this tax, oh well.  Again, if you can afford a $1M recreational property, you can afford the tax.

You did not say that - you implied a lack of sympathy. The only way I would not be sympathetic to someone is if they had gotten their wealth through shady means. To imply no sympathy is to either admit jealousy or worse.  
This is a way to punish success. 
This doesn't end well for one group, I can promise you given enough push back the ones being truly hurt wont be the rich shady ones. 

Jealousy?  
I just hate listening to people complain about things when, in reality, they should consider themselves privileged.  People are without homes, without food, struggling to make ends meet... and I'm supposed to reserve some sympathy for people getting taxed on their weekend home?  LOL... it's not even first world problems.... it's high tax bracket first world problems.  Give me a break.
 
rofina
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1550
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:39 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:13 pm

reallyreal2 wrote:
rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
Sorry - where did I say people steal money?
If a few Canadians get captured under this tax, oh well.  Again, if you can afford a $1M recreational property, you can afford the tax.

You did not say that - you implied a lack of sympathy. The only way I would not be sympathetic to someone is if they had gotten their wealth through shady means. To imply no sympathy is to either admit jealousy or worse.  
This is a way to punish success. 
This doesn't end well for one group, I can promise you given enough push back the ones being truly hurt wont be the rich shady ones. 

Jealousy?  
I just hate listening to people complain about things when, in reality, they should consider themselves privileged.  People are without homes, without food, struggling to make ends meet... and I'm supposed to reserve some sympathy for people getting taxed on their weekend home?  LOL... it's not even first world problems.... it's high tax bracket first world problems.  Give me a break.

I think were maybe talking past each other.
Why would you want to compare anything to the lowest common denominator? Being thankful for privileges that first world living affords is certainly a desirable trait, but those privileges don't come without a fight. Nothing just "happens." The world changes, for better or worse, because of people who work to change it. Some consciously, some not.
Me not wanting to punish successful BC'ers is not incompatible with my views of wanting affordability and greater security for those more vulnerable.
I ask you: If illicit, un-taxed, foreign capital is a majority cause of the issue we face. How does punishing Plumber John, who has had a family cabin on a Gulf Island for 30 years get us closer to addressing any of the core issues? 
 
yzfr1
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:35 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:31 pm

I would assume guys like Reallyreal have been frustrated towards the housing market for sometime. The frustration leads to allot of irrational thinking. “Can’t make a omelet without breaking a few eggs” “desperate times call for desperate measure”

Similar to what we are seeing in the states, allot of the Donald Trump supporters are scapegoating everything on Mexicans. I’m sure most people don’t reall really want to be that racist but they want change and sometimes you gotta go to the extreme.

Knowing there will be innocent collateral and still being ok with it by justifying they are rich enough that its ok to punitively punish them without just cause. When people are backed up against a wall the “animal instincts” come out.
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Speculation tax ! Finally

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:38 pm

reallyreal2 wrote:
rofina wrote:
reallyreal2 wrote:
Sorry - where did I say people steal money?
If a few Canadians get captured under this tax, oh well.  Again, if you can afford a $1M recreational property, you can afford the tax.

You did not say that - you implied a lack of sympathy. The only way I would not be sympathetic to someone is if they had gotten their wealth through shady means. To imply no sympathy is to either admit jealousy or worse.  
This is a way to punish success. 
This doesn't end well for one group, I can promise you given enough push back the ones being truly hurt wont be the rich shady ones. 

Jealousy?  
I just hate listening to people complain about things when, in reality, they should consider themselves privileged.  People are without homes, without food, struggling to make ends meet... and I'm supposed to reserve some sympathy for people getting taxed on their weekend home?  LOL... it's not even first world problems.... it's high tax bracket first world problems.  Give me a break.

Its a slippery slope!!  We aren't actually complaining, I was pointing out that NDP just pulled off the Greatest Tax Scam in History and everyone loves it!!  They are completely lying about the implementation of the tax and are using mob mentality to get people to agree to punitive new taxes, and you are okay with that???  (BTW this tax doesn't affect me, as I have all of our properties rented out long term, except in Whistler, where the property is designed and zoned for short term rentals and is outside the zones included in this scheme..,but I guess by your standards I shouldn't own any of these properties, except the one I live in.)

They are using the same playbook to implement the congestion tax next, getting everyone to agree that we need to solve the congestion problem while nailing everyone for leaving their house to drive to work.  They are trying create a big problem and then swoop in and magically solve the problem with a grand new tax, yippee, lets get all the bad drivers and nail them too, because ICBC was mismanaged, we will invent new ways to penalize people for speeding!!!

Why stop there, lets go for an asset tax next, the government should be able to just take $20 of every $1000 you have saved, but don't worry we will give that to the poor people who don't know how or don't bother to save money.

These are taxes that strike at the very fabric of our free society and yet its all a great new plan, based on the fact that no-one deserves more than the next guy.  After the Asset Tax is implemented, we can start assigning housing as well.  Why should you choose your primary residence, the Government can just decide for you.

Okay I'll stop with the Hyperbole, but why should the government punish people for getting ahead in life (aside from the fact that Eyethebuys thinks anyone who gets ahead in life must be a crook)

Here is a good example 

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/why-are-people-who-live-in-their-homes-getting-dinged-by-the-empty-homes-tax-1.3813469
These people are going to get double screwed, just because they built a life where they live on Salt Spring and travel to Vancouver to work and live part of the time.  
They are going to be forced to pay $8000 per year to the City and then will get double dinged by the Government of BC, who will expect $16000 minus a tax credit (assuming they made 100000 per year would amount to $7k).  Therefore she will have to pay $9000 to the Government of BC and $8000 to the City just to have a place to live while she works in the city.  That's $17,000 per year on top of property taxes, income tax, GST, PST, Environmental Levies for anything with a plug (that also charge GST and PST on top of the tax levy - tax on top of tax), Carbon Tax, etc, etc.

So these middle class BC tax-paying citizens are on the hook for another $17000 Per YEAR!!  (and likely climbing every year if their assessed value increases), just because they live on Salt Spring Island and have a condo in Vancouver to use while working part-time in the city. 

Yes I agree there are some problems to solve with our housing, but as I've said before, if the government just applied the rules fairly, and collected the existing taxes we already have in place, we wouldn't need to invent a bunch of new taxes that punish the wrong people and threaten our way of life and are putting us on a very slippery economic slope.  E.g. Withholding 30% of the proceeds of any pre-sale assignment or in fact any sale of real estate by a non-resident seller.  Forcing them to file taxes and claim the capital gain...meanwhile they have been allowed to take this tax-free money without a worry of any repercussions and do it over and over for year and years.  Instead 20 years later, we will create a database of people who assign their pre-sales (ok its a start)!!!

Stop making the Real Estate Sales Person the Police for money laundering.  The person who only gets paid when they successfully conclude a transaction is expected to police their clients???  No wonder that has failed miserably!!!

Meanwhile the ultra rich are two steps ahead and will be pulling their developments off the table to figure out what's next.  the Ultra Rich developers are making billions selling condos that the average person shouldn't be allowed to own anymore according to the Internet mob, meanwhile the Ultra Rich will just take their money and run off to the next money making investment somewhere else.  And you are calling me tone deaf, wow!!!  
Meanwhile more drug addicts will die in Vancouver (well actually everywhere in North America) while Gregor plans his post-mayoral retirement...pretty sure he will have multiple recreational properties in warmer places than Vancouver!

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