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reallyreal2
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Re: The Money Pit Tax

Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:00 pm

Don't get me started on permitting delays.These government workers think a good paying job is a right. They get every second Friday off and at 4;20 pm stop answering their phones. Lots of sick days and personal days, full benefits and a pension. If you follow up on a permit you are waiting for they get mad. And it's not like you can buy them lunch or dinner or give them a bottle of scotch to get expedited service.

Here is a planner job for $55 an hour.

https://jobs.vancouver.ca/job/Vancouver ... 461534600/

I know they have heavy work loads so hire more and pay overtime, At $77 an hour you would get city workers working evenings and weekends. They pay for themselves with permit fees, CACs, DCCs, etc.

Give developers the option of paying extra fees for a fast track permit. 
So your solution is bribes?  Awesome.
$55 an hour... LOL...they can afford a 1 bedroom for their family at that wage.  
What's wrong with Coquitlam, Surrey, Langley, Cloverdale, Abbotsford, etc. Lot's of affordable townhouses and houses there.
I was talking about coquitlam, surrey, etc. $55/hr in vancouver buys you a shipping container
 
VanLord
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Re: The Money Pit Tax

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:02 pm

So it looks like the numbers are coming in quite a bit lower than predicted!
The city won't even give us a straight answer on how many properties actually have to pay the tax.  I'm guessing the Empty Homes Tax will not break even this year.
The city has to lie about the numbers and say 8500 empty or under utilized homes, which includes 2200 people who didn't declare.  As well as all the exemptions, like a property going through re-zoning, or where a person is not using the home due to medical circumstances, etc.
Interesting and again points to the same issues where these governments are building up all the problems and crisis to get the Internet Mob working for them in order to magically solve problems with new taxes, all while pandering for votes.  Its quite brilliant in a way.
Empty homes was never really an issue.  What the big issue was is AIR BNB, and of course jealousy.  A lot of these "empty homes" are homes waiting to get demoed and the city is taking a year to complete building permits. 
From my personal experience, I have a client that has been waiting for approvals from the city since mid last year.  We just started abatement this week. 
Also before you all get upset and say we shouldn't be ripping down old homes and putting up new ones in there place, think about this.  The old home is full of mold and asbestos.  Only housed one family.  The new home will house 3 families. 
The only way out of this is increase supply and density.  Not curb demand like the NDP is suggesting.  You can curb demand for a year, maybe 2 years, then all this pent up demand will over run the market and force prices higher.  Not to mention rents will increase in the mean time while people are looking for a place to live.
NDP have got this all wrong
Why is it either/or?  Why not curb demand and increase supply?
And it's not like the NDP is curbing demand - They are curbing a very specific demand so they people that live here have an opportunity.
you do realize the tax scheme is going to drastically hurt supply, and raise the cost of building a new home.  Which is of course passed onto the purchaser.  E.g. Additional PTT over 3 million, developers are caught paying those fees.  Much of what the NDP is doing is going to have unintended consequences.  You keep beating the same drum, but haven't bothered to comment on any of the other suggestions / discussion points.  
 
reallyreal2
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Re: The Money Pit Tax

Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:33 am

Empty homes was never really an issue.  What the big issue was is AIR BNB, and of course jealousy.  A lot of these "empty homes" are homes waiting to get demoed and the city is taking a year to complete building permits. 
From my personal experience, I have a client that has been waiting for approvals from the city since mid last year.  We just started abatement this week. 
Also before you all get upset and say we shouldn't be ripping down old homes and putting up new ones in there place, think about this.  The old home is full of mold and asbestos.  Only housed one family.  The new home will house 3 families. 
The only way out of this is increase supply and density.  Not curb demand like the NDP is suggesting.  You can curb demand for a year, maybe 2 years, then all this pent up demand will over run the market and force prices higher.  Not to mention rents will increase in the mean time while people are looking for a place to live.
NDP have got this all wrong
Why is it either/or?  Why not curb demand and increase supply?
And it's not like the NDP is curbing demand - They are curbing a very specific demand so they people that live here have an opportunity.
you do realize the tax scheme is going to drastically hurt supply, and raise the cost of building a new home.  Which is of course passed onto the purchaser.  E.g. Additional PTT over 3 million, developers are caught paying those fees.  Much of what the NDP is doing is going to have unintended consequences.  You keep beating the same drum, but haven't bothered to comment on any of the other suggestions / discussion points.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incid ... _incidence
Not exactly.
If the consumer can't bear the price increase of the tax, then the burden gets passed to the factors of production - ie, what the developer is willing to pay for land, what they are willing to pay plumbers, what they are willing to pay for supplies.  
 
rofina
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Re: The Money Pit Tax

Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:58 am

Why is it either/or?  Why not curb demand and increase supply?
And it's not like the NDP is curbing demand - They are curbing a very specific demand so they people that live here have an opportunity.
you do realize the tax scheme is going to drastically hurt supply, and raise the cost of building a new home.  Which is of course passed onto the purchaser.  E.g. Additional PTT over 3 million, developers are caught paying those fees.  Much of what the NDP is doing is going to have unintended consequences.  You keep beating the same drum, but haven't bothered to comment on any of the other suggestions / discussion points.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incid ... _incidence
Not exactly.
If the consumer can't bear the price increase of the tax, then the burden gets passed to the factors of production - ie, what the developer is willing to pay for land, what they are willing to pay plumbers, what they are willing to pay for supplies.  
This is where it gets complicated.
There is already a shortage of skilled trades. Many retiring, few new entries, and many leaving Metro Van for cheaper locations.
Supplies are largely coming up from US, our low dollar is not making building cheaper.
Green building regulations have escalated costs massively - unless these are relaxed (slim chance) building costs are not going down much.
The only input I do see decreasing is land costs. That's the only place where tweaks can be made.
 
reallyreal2
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Posts: 732
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Re: The Money Pit Tax

Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:36 am

you do realize the tax scheme is going to drastically hurt supply, and raise the cost of building a new home.  Which is of course passed onto the purchaser.  E.g. Additional PTT over 3 million, developers are caught paying those fees.  Much of what the NDP is doing is going to have unintended consequences.  You keep beating the same drum, but haven't bothered to comment on any of the other suggestions / discussion points.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incid ... _incidence
Not exactly.
If the consumer can't bear the price increase of the tax, then the burden gets passed to the factors of production - ie, what the developer is willing to pay for land, what they are willing to pay plumbers, what they are willing to pay for supplies.  
This is where it gets complicated.
There is already a shortage of skilled trades. Many retiring, few new entries, and many leaving Metro Van for cheaper locations.
Supplies are largely coming up from US, our low dollar is not making building cheaper.
Green building regulations have escalated costs massively - unless these are relaxed (slim chance) building costs are not going down much.
The only input I do see decreasing is land costs. That's the only place where tweaks can be made.
Yep - economics is complicated.  I think we can all agree on that.   :lol:
 
VanBullBear
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Posts: 90
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Re: The Money Pit Tax

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:20 pm

you do realize the tax scheme is going to drastically hurt supply, and raise the cost of building a new home.  Which is of course passed onto the purchaser.  E.g. Additional PTT over 3 million, developers are caught paying those fees.  Much of what the NDP is doing is going to have unintended consequences.  You keep beating the same drum, but haven't bothered to comment on any of the other suggestions / discussion points.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incid ... _incidence
Not exactly.
If the consumer can't bear the price increase of the tax, then the burden gets passed to the factors of production - ie, what the developer is willing to pay for land, what they are willing to pay plumbers, what they are willing to pay for supplies.  
This is where it gets complicated.
There is already a shortage of skilled trades. Many retiring, few new entries, and many leaving Metro Van for cheaper locations.
Supplies are largely coming up from US, our low dollar is not making building cheaper.
Green building regulations have escalated costs massively - unless these are relaxed (slim chance) building costs are not going down much.
The only input I do see decreasing is land costs. That's the only place where tweaks can be made.
Rofina, good point on the shortage of skilled trades. I read a FB post by one of the construction managers that the quality of tradesmen/women have gone down substantially - they would hire 5 and only 2 would show up, work for a couple of days and leave for another job site without notice. The good ones are retiring and there is not much to pick from, given the high demand, employers can't be picky at all. Seeing as the average trades salary is not enough to live comfortably in here, they are leaving the city. The person mentioned that there's a lot of new buildings in the last 4 years with sub-par shoddy workmanship. Not only are the buyers going to stretch their budget getting into the market, once strata starts asking for money to fix the flaws - some of these home owners are really going to feel it. What a mess...
 
rofina
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:39 pm
Contact:

Re: The Money Pit Tax

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:37 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incid ... _incidence
Not exactly.
If the consumer can't bear the price increase of the tax, then the burden gets passed to the factors of production - ie, what the developer is willing to pay for land, what they are willing to pay plumbers, what they are willing to pay for supplies.  
This is where it gets complicated.
There is already a shortage of skilled trades. Many retiring, few new entries, and many leaving Metro Van for cheaper locations.
Supplies are largely coming up from US, our low dollar is not making building cheaper.
Green building regulations have escalated costs massively - unless these are relaxed (slim chance) building costs are not going down much.
The only input I do see decreasing is land costs. That's the only place where tweaks can be made.
Rofina, good point on the shortage of skilled trades. I read a FB post by one of the construction managers that the quality of tradesmen/women have gone down substantially - they would hire 5 and only 2 would show up, work for a couple of days and leave for another job site without notice. The good ones are retiring and there is not much to pick from, given the high demand, employers can't be picky at all. Seeing as the average trades salary is not enough to live comfortably in here, they are leaving the city. The person mentioned that there's a lot of new buildings in the last 4 years with sub-par shoddy workmanship. Not only are the buyers going to stretch their budget getting into the market, once strata starts asking for money to fix the flaws - some of these home owners are really going to feel it. What a mess...
Indeed - recruiters are having a field day. There is no net growth in the labour force in the industry, its all just companies poaching from each other via perks or salaries.

Its definitely not a healthy job market - but when a 6 figure salary barely gets you a 1 bedroom condo, what do you expect? People are expecting premiums to locate in Vancouver. The salaries are simply too low to justify the Vancouver costs.

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