So Jerry, getting back to your OP, how many of the homeowners wanting to buy in five years will also be sellers in five years? I bet it'll be close to 50%.Read... Dummy!
So Jimmy, any more unbiased analysis you'd like to share with us?"The employment consequences of the Games would be an additional
92,000 job in the South west Metropolitan region under the Games scenario in 2031," Baxter said. "That is 74 per cent more jobs than in 2001 and 4.6 per cent more than there would be in 'no-Games' scenario."
The "sleeper," he said, could be Squamish.
"Within the Sea-to-Sky region, the Games scenario would result in an
11-per-cent greater population in Squamish and a 13.4-percent greater
population in the Whistler-Pemberton community," he said.
The Squamish region should enjoy a real boom in population and economic activity from the 2010 Games, according to Urban Futures Institute head David Baxter.
I agree that this forum is highly Vancouvercentric, but I guess that's where a high percentage of us live. It is interesting to hear about the anomalies in other parts of BC, it helps us avoid developing tunnel vision.The problem of unoccupied dwellings is one more of a concentration of certain dwelling types and prime locations. It's hard to argue too much on a regional basis. The refrain I hear suffers from Vancouverproperitis.
FWIW, I want to share a candlelight dinner with Angelina Jolie within the next five years, but I'm not betting it's going to happen. But there again, I'll be quite happy to do the same with my wife.So Jerry, getting back to your OP, how many of the homeowners wanting to buy in five years will also be sellers in five years? I bet it'll be close to 50%.Read... Dummy!
Not just this forum, the media is heavily Vancouver-focused, as is the refrain on Twitter (don't know about facebook, I don't have friends so don't use it). The "empty condo" thing is acute only in a very small area of Vancouver.this forum is highly Vancouvercentric
The data is from the 2011 Census. Is there a newer Census????Ah Jimmy, there you go again. I see the data point cutoff is now moved back to 2011 and I admit that back then the property market looked pretty healthy - so long as you ignored the underlying fundamentals. :
Actually, the Urban Futures report is based on the same Census data used by Andrew Yan.I see you appear to give greater credibility to the "Burnaby News Leader" than to the Globe & Mail but I'm not familiar with the former so it's hard for me to comment other than to ask if they carry much in the way of real estate advertising.
As for the Urban Futures Institute, if I was conducting a real estate seminar I can think of few people I'd rather have as a speaker than their President, David Baxter.
David Baxter was recently named one of the 20 most influential people in British Columbia's residential contruction industry" by the Canadian Home Builder's Association
So Jimmy, any more unbiased analysis you'd like to share with us?
"Non-Resident Occupancy is defined as a regular private dwelling unit that is either "unoccupied" or "occupied solely by foreign residents and/or temporary present residents" on the census reference day - May 10, 2011"
Ah! So that's why you don't consider any data from post 2011.The data is from the 2011 Census. Is there a newer Census????
What has definitely changed is the level of immigration into BC and the number of home sales each month. Both have tanked and that "bull trend" ended in early 2012!Really, I don't think that the demographics have changed much in two years. BTW, the fundamentals include a bull trend.
Western Investor February 2013
"Condopocalypse" now forecast for Vancouver
Noted Vancouver housing analyst Frank Schliewinsky is predicting a near collapse in MLS condominium sales across most of Metro Vancouver this year, with sales falling by as much as 50 per cent from a depressed 2012.
"The Mayans were right, at least as far as the Vancouver condo market goes," Schliewinsky, founder of Strategics, states in his latest Vancouver Condo Report. "Condopocalypse in 2013. MLS sales of apartment and townhouse condos could be down to 8,000 units in 2013."
If true, this would be a near-50 per cent drop in condominium and townhouse sales across the region compared with a year ago.
In the highrise market, Schliewinsky forecasts sales could fall to just 2,650 units this year, down from 3,200 in 2012. He predicts highrise condo prices will fall a further 7 per cent in 2013 following a 3 per cent drop in 2012: "The overall price trend is now negative."
The low-rise condo sector, which makes up the bulk of the resale market, will not perform any better, he warns.
"Twelve months ago the forecast was for 4,400 MLS low-rise sales in 2012," said Schliewinsky. "The actual number of sales is expected to be closer to 3,900 units and the next 12 months will likely see even fewer low-rise sales. Overall MLS low-rise sales ... could be down to 2,900 units if the present downward trend persists. That would mean a 27 per cent drop from 2012 sales.
"Eventually the market will hit bottom and right now it's not clear where the bottom is. Further price drops will play a big role in slowing the downward sales trend. The average MLS price per low-rise unit in 2012 was $326,000; a 1 per cent decline from 2011. The average price per square foot was $368; down 2 per cent from 2011. So far, price reductions for low-rise condos haven't been enough to stimulate demand and unless there's a major shift over the next 12 months, another 3 per cent drop isn't going to do much either. "
Vancouver realtors agree. They are seeing downward pressure on condominium prices, with luxury unit prices down 20 per cent from 2012 and lower-priced units down 10 per cent to 15 per cent.
Agents say a tightening of mortgage regulations for high-ratio loan insurance has affected sales of lower- and mid-price condominiums. Under the new rules a typical couple earning $100,000 a year would qualify for $450,000 in financing, compared with a $600,000 mortgage when longer amortizations and easier qualifications were allowed, one realtor estimated.
How about the new stuff being built and poised to flood an already dying market?Foreign investment in real estate market resulting in empty condos
Mar 21st, 2013
Next, Yan discusses the “empty condo” phenomenon, using findings from his analysis of BC Hydro data. According to BC Hydro, an average occupied unit uses about 400 kilowatt hours per month. Setting the bar at 75 kilowatt hours (or the amount of energy used by your average refrigerator), Yan found that about 5.5% of the units in his study were possibly empty. At 100 kilowatt hours, the number jumped to 8.5% – and at 150, 17% of the units in Yan’s study were possibly empty.
Yan’s most striking number, however, comes from one of the swankiest corners of downtown real-estate. In Coal Harbour, he says, the 2011 Census finds that between 20.1% and 23% of condos are non-resident occupied. AKA, empty.
Look around the skyline and you’ll see it dotted by cranes, and everywhere there seems to be another hole in the ground making way for another apartment building.
Sixteen condo towers are under construction, according to a database by Skyscraperpage.com and another 67 proposed high-rises are in the works.
Amid newly-tightened mortgage rules and concerns of an over-supply in the Toronto condo market that prompted financial authorities including Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney to sound an alarm this week, we think we’ve earned the right to ask: Is Vancouver oversaturated with condos?
Housing starts in Vancouver are up in the first five months of 2012 compared to the same period last year, driven largely by multiple-unit dwelling construction – which is up by about 50 per cent from last year.
In summary, I find myself agreeing with Jimtan's findings, if we completely ignore all the events of the last eighteen months the outlook for Vancouver real estate is all unicorns and rainbows!June 2012
Take a look for yourself at the condos currently under construction in Vancouver.
1) Wall Centre False Creek I, II, III, IV
100 W. 1st Avenue
556 units in four towers
Completion: Early to mid-2014
1901 Wylie Street
Completion: Fall 2012
3) James Living
289 W. 2nd Avenue
Completion: August 2012
4) The Mark
1372 Seymour Street (at Pacific Boulevard)
At 41 storeys, it is billed as the tallest tower in Yaletown
Completion: Summer 2013
1308 Hornby Street
Completion: June 2014
161 W. Georgia Street
Status: Move-in ready
7) The Rolston
1300 Granville Street (site of the old Cecil Hotel)
Completion: June 2013
1304 Howe Street
Completion: December 2013
2788 Prince Edward
Completion: Fall 2012
10) TELUS Garden
775 Richards Street
428 units in a 53-storey tower, which will be the second-tallest in the city after the Shangri-La
11) Marine Gateway
8400 Cambie Street
415 units in two towers
12) 1153 West Georgia Formerly the Ritz Carlton
290 units (but should be confirmed independently, based on CBC report)
13) Wall Centre Central Park Boundary Road and Vanness Avenue
1,114 units in three towers
Status: Rezoning application approved. Completion date: XX
14) Rize Mount Pleasant
Kingsway and Broadway
Status: Rezoning proposal approved by city council in April. If approved, completion date of XX.
15) Burrard Gateway
1290 Burrard Street (and 1281 Hornby Street)
About 589 units in two towers
Status: Proposed, awaiting rezoning approval. If approved, completion date of 2015 to 2016
with all due respect Geyser, you need to find a better definition for the word Bleak. If you ask homeowners in many US markets 2008-2012 what bleak looks like I think you'll find that Vancouver was still unicorns and rainbows since Manrch 2012"Geyser"
In summary, I find myself agreeing with Jimtan's findings, if we completely ignore all the events of the last eighteen months the outlook for Vancouver real estate is all unicorns and rainbows!
It's only when we look at what has been happening since March of 2012 that things start to look bleak - but who wants to do that? Certainly not Jimbo!
Did they also explain why buyers in a city with a higher median wage than Vancouver and where a nice house can be had for $150K would choose an apartment?Meanwhile, this graph from Urban Futures illustrates the difference between Vancouver and Windsor.
Subtle deserves scare quotes, that's one hell of a map.Notice the subtle difference in definition. I've highlighted the pertinent bit as a public service.