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Austin
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NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:30 am

So, it looks like the NDP has a shot at this. What's your thoughts? Will they crush RE in BC with new landlord rules? By killing our economy?

(edit: I'm probably voting NDP btw, but for reasons other than the economy and RE .. Liberals are trying to kill our community for whatever bizarre reason)
Redistribute consumption, not income.
 
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Warren12
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:34 am

Companies will leave, others will choose not to locate here. Unfortunately for the NDP, it's all perception and will be a self-fulfilling prophecy no matter what. However I can predict a few things...

It looks all but certain that Dix will get in. He's already said he will raise corporate income taxes. The unions will start screaming for their pay increases, and 2-3 years in, nobody will admit to voting for him. Much like the HST. :mrgreen:
 
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ArthurFonzarelli
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:39 am

I don't think you know what you're talking about, Warren. Respectfully. The only NDP policy priority I've seen that would have had any discernible negative impact on the economy and the housing market was with respect to their proposal to increase corporate tax rates by 1% and ditto for high income earners. Neither of which would have been significant, both of which were derided by the Liberals as being a return to socialism one year ago, and both of which were just implemented by the Liberals this past month. That was the tax increase they were talking about. And if you were paying attention you'd see that it was already done.

On the economy they haven't yet proposed much different than the Liberals. Which is why they are so silent on their economic agenda.

All the serious stuff that would impact RE - interest rates, lending regulations, major tax programs - are the responsibility of the feds.

FWIW, I'm voting NDP in this election too. For all sorts of reasons.
 
fishguy15
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:09 am

Which is why they are so silent on their economic agenda.
They are silent on everything with the exception of raising corporate and high income tax. Dix won't be nailed down on anything. There's been no need to disclose any policy when the Liberals are doing a fine job of selling the NDP to the electorate.
 
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:23 am

in case you're wondering why this government is complaining that they have no money
Consider that the province's corporate-income tax rate, which stood at 16.5 per cent before the BC Liberals took power in 2001, today is just 10.0 per cent. Profitable corporations, however, pay even less than that.

Falcon's budget shows that corporate profits will surpass $24.7 billion in 2012, yet Victoria's corporate-income tax receipts will come in at less than $2.3 billion -- or a mere 9.1 per cent of profits.

Next year, in 2013, profits are expected to rise to $25.8 billion, but the province's take will drop to 7.9 per cent.
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/02/27/BC ... ndex1.html
 
Austin
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:48 am

A higher corporate tax will increase the unemployment rate as corporations decide to leave / not to locate here.

Taxing corporations makes really no sense at all. It's as dumb as income tax. WHy tax people for working and saving? Moronic. Harper was super smart with the TFSA.

A *progressive* consumption tax is a much smarter idea.

The short sightedness of people with regards to consumption taxes is absolutely incredible. Consumption destroys your savings, it's generally unnecessary, it destroys the environment, it diverts investment away from socially useful causes (imagine the billions spent on going to movies spent on a space program? or solving world hunger?), and creates jealousy between the rich and poor.

Imagine if rich people who bought nice cars and houses had to pay *obscene* amounts of tax just to show how richie rich they are? Hell, if they want to fund my medicare with their extravagance, the more power to them....

The way it should work is that all of our income should go directly into a TFSA account, and we're only charged a tax on it when we withdraw over a certain amount.

This way, it's progressive. Poor people are totally tax free (no consumption tax as well). Only people who consume over a certain amount are paying taxes. And tourists / shoppers from abroad are happy to come here because there is no extra taxes either.
Redistribute consumption, not income.
 
Geyser
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:46 am

Austin, my head is spinning!

Your suggestion appears nothing short of brilliant! My only concern is that it sounds too good to be true and I'm thinking that I must be missing some massive fundamental flaw in it.

I love the idea of a progressive consumption tax and the idea of sheltering everybody's total income in a TFSA looks like an obvious way of implementing it, it makes perfect sense to me. Doubtless it would result in big increases in savings and investment but I would be concerned about a sudden switch to such a system. It would need to be eased in over a number of years to avoid the sudden shock of vast amounts of money being diverted from local sales and into savings, but the huge corresponding increase in investment might offset that to some degree.

I do like the apparent fairness of such a system and, if I'm not overlooking some huge flaw, I hope it's something which will gain traction with the politicians. Have you tried to spread the idea?

As an aside, I still can't believe our electors were dumb enough to listen to Van Derzalm and the NDP opportunists regarding the HST. how much more evidence do we need to see that they don't understand business or economics? Jeesh!
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
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semven
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:53 am

Karl Marx spread it already....

Jk :P
 
Geyser
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:02 pm

Karl Marx spread it already....

Jk :P
:lol:
I like the idea of Joe the Plumber saving a bit more and investing. Perhaps if the hard line lefties realized that the growth of their savings was dependent on low taxes and businesses being profitable, they might stop trying to defend endless government spending and the throttling of free enterprise.

Nothing stifles socialist thinking quicker than prosperity. Generally, socialists only want fairness and sharing when they have little to share.
In fond memory of Taipan, a model of modesty, decency, dignity and tolerance. Long may we all prosper from the tremendous legacy of worldly wisdom and specialized real estate knowledge which he left in the "Arguments" thread.
 
Austin
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:31 pm

The primary issue behind socialists is the "golden rule" .. he who has the gold makes the rules. There is an innate unfairness in that the rich get richer because they control the levers of power. Look at wallstreet welfare today.. that all comes because these guys fund the politicians that protect them. It might efficient from a capitalism standpoint (why not, rich people are smart and invest well) but it's very very unfair in many ways because those rich people can spend their money willy nilly on whatever useless garbage they want (100M dollar yachts, etc)

The key is to find a way for rich people to have all the money they want, but not be able to SPEND IT how they want (without paying massive taxes). Imagine if all the rich people had to be like buffet or go poor. They had to have a simple house, a simple car .. a simple life. Sure, they have tonnes of economic power and social security, but they can't spend it on fancy vacations and nice things without giving it all away to the government.

This would be a very efficient (in terms of capital allocation) and FAIR economic system..

The so called socialists you complain about aren't really socialists. They're just idiots.
Redistribute consumption, not income.
 
Austin
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:35 pm

Your suggestion appears nothing short of brilliant! My only concern is that it sounds too good to be true and I'm thinking that I must be missing some massive fundamental flaw in it.
The flaw is that it would upend our economy which is based on consumption so it needs to be done gradually. I believe Harper is trying to do this gradually with the TFSA. The other flaw is that money needs to be less cash and more digital based for tracking purposes, which it generally is more and more.
Redistribute consumption, not income.
 
fishguy15
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:45 pm

The way it should work is that all of our income should go directly into a TFSA account, and we're only charged a tax on it when we withdraw over a certain amount.

This way, it's progressive. Poor people are totally tax free (no consumption tax as well). Only people who consume over a certain amount are paying taxes.
Sounds like an accounting nightmare...
 
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Warren12
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:47 pm

I don't think you know what you're talking about, Warren.
I guess you have a short memory. Read my post. I said it's the perception (by the public and corporate community) more than any policies they enact. But when they start, it's a snowballing mess. Remember the 90s when they bailed out mills and whatnot in the interior? Hundreds of millions of $$. Great job guys.
 
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Warren12
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:50 pm

The short sightedness of people with regards to consumption taxes is absolutely incredible. Consumption destroys your savings, it's generally unnecessary, it destroys the environment, it diverts investment away from socially useful causes (imagine the billions spent on going to movies spent on a space program? or solving world hunger?), and creates jealousy between the rich and poor.
+1

Reducing the GST was probably the most disappointing thing Harper has done.

Rejecting the HST was one of the stupidest things the people of BC (led by Slick Willy) have done.
 
jimtan
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Re: NDP in May - how bad for RE?

Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:01 pm

So, it looks like the NDP has a shot at this. What's your thoughts? Will they crush RE in BC with new landlord rules? By killing our economy?

(edit: I'm probably voting NDP btw, but for reasons other than the economy and RE .. Liberals are trying to kill our community for whatever bizarre reason)

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

Why don't we wait for the NDP's platform? It would be a good idea to wait for the specifics.

BTW, a center-left government could be a good thing if it has a better strategy.

Read this.

An alternative budget: Balancing the books through stimulating growth, jobs

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/altern ... 17000.html

"Flaherty said on Friday he has no intentions of ramping up spending to stimulate the weak economy, and instead plans to trim further in order to meet his 2015 balanced budget target.

But the CCPA argues that Flaherty is going about it all wrong, and that his policies will only guarantee continued slow growth for Canada.

Economists believe Canada's economy will advance by only about 1.7 per cent this year, similar to last year, constituting the worst two years of growth since the recession.

The think-tank points out that austerity has done little in Europe but help sink the continent's economies, while at the same time driving up deficits as government revenues collapsed.

"Canada has a growth problem, not a deficit problem," says alternative budget co-ordinator David Macdonald.

"More cuts will only lead to less growth and fewer opportunities for Canadians."

The group notes that at 1.5 per cent of gross domestic product — the economy's total annual output — and with interest rates at record lows, there's no reason for Ottawa to obsess about the deficit.

By comparison, the U.S. recently posted deficits as high as 10 per cent of its GDP.

Instead, Flaherty should be investing billions of dollars to rebuild Canada's infrastructure and in measures to reduce poverty through investments in child care, pharmacare, affordable housing, post-secondary education, and better income supports."

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