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tdma800
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 2977
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 am

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:55 am

jimtan wrote:
yzfr1 wrote:
Why don't they put all of this effort into taxing basement suites. In east van you could throw darts at a map and locate a illigal suite. The tax revenue would be through the roof.


You may claim to be a paper millionaire. But, you sound like a loser.  

takes 1 to know 1
 
VanLord
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:52 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:31 pm

yzfr1 wrote:
Why don't they put all of this effort into taxing basement suites. In east van you could throw darts at a map and locate a illigal suite. The tax revenue would be through the roof.

We could afford to build a bike lane to whistler

Actually basement suites aren't illegal in Vancouver.  They also provide affordable housing that otherwise wouldn't be available.  And I would think that more people that have a basement suite would claim the income, as well as the expenses, the penalties for getting caught are quite steep.  Also this isn't tax revenue that the city collects.
 
tdma800
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 2977
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 am

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:39 pm

yzfr1 wrote:
Why don't they put all of this effort into taxing basement suites. In east van you could throw darts at a map and locate a illigal suite. The tax revenue would be through the roof.

We could afford to build a bike lane to whistler

Yes the suites are illegal and one way is the builder puts pipes and stuff in the wall then installs a suite after inspection. You can see on the mls a legitimate suite is rare . Knowledgeable people know it .
 
jimtan
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 5427
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:59 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:10 pm

VanLord wrote:
yzfr1 wrote:
Why don't they put all of this effort into taxing basement suites. In east van you could throw darts at a map and locate a illigal suite. The tax revenue would be through the roof.

We could afford to build a bike lane to whistler

Actually basement suites aren't illegal in Vancouver.  They also provide affordable housing that otherwise wouldn't be available.  And I would think that more people that have a basement suite would claim the income, as well as the expenses, the penalties for getting caught are quite steep.  Also this isn't tax revenue that the city collects.

Another dud from yzfr1. Don't know why he's against renters.
 
yzfr1
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:35 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:29 pm

VanLord wrote:
yzfr1 wrote:
Why don't they put all of this effort into taxing basement suites. In east van you could throw darts at a map and locate a illigal suite. The tax revenue would be through the roof.

We could afford to build a bike lane to whistler

Actually basement suites aren't illegal in Vancouver.  They also provide affordable housing that otherwise wouldn't be available.  And I would think that more people that have a basement suite would claim the income, as well as the expenses, the penalties for getting caught are quite steep.  Also this isn't tax revenue that the city collects.


I never claimed that having a basement suite wasn't allowed. However there are many unregistered suites, thats a fact. Without separate entrances or correct fire code.

Your house needs to be zoned and registered. I've been to many Micky mouse basements that have been modified. Check on Craigslist and you will find tons. All of those don't claim income because it's NOT registered.

The city collects more property tax on registered suite then non registered suites. Why should people avoid paying their fair share of utilities or school taxes.

You are sounding like Jim-dumbass-550AMG now.
 
jimtan
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 5427
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:59 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:59 pm

Back on topic, don't see why anyone would object to anti-BnB controls for residential properties. After all, its the neighbors who are objecting.

Ohhh, maybe some investors are using AirBnB to finance their sub-prime mortgage!  :!:
 
tdma800
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 2977
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 am

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:00 pm

yzfr1 wrote:
VanLord wrote:
yzfr1 wrote:
Why don't they put all of this effort into taxing basement suites. In east van you could throw darts at a map and locate a illigal suite. The tax revenue would be through the roof.

We could afford to build a bike lane to whistler

Actually basement suites aren't illegal in Vancouver.  They also provide affordable housing that otherwise wouldn't be available.  And I would think that more people that have a basement suite would claim the income, as well as the expenses, the penalties for getting caught are quite steep.  Also this isn't tax revenue that the city collects.


I never claimed that having a basement suite wasn't allowed. However there are many unregistered suites, thats a fact. Without separate entrances or correct fire code.

Your house needs to be zoned and registered. I've been to many Micky mouse basements that have been modified. Check on Craigslist and you will find tons. All of those don't claim income because it's NOT registered.

The city collects more property tax on registered suite then non registered suites. Why should people avoid paying their fair share of utilities or school taxes.

You are sounding like Jim-dumbass-550AMG now.

Its a sherlock moment.  People actually in Vancouver know that for as long as one can remember, Canada doesnt have the filthy loans like they do in America.
 
jimtan
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 5427
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:59 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:27 am

Good thread by Geyser. There's a movement to rein in AirBnB. Enforcement can only get tougher.

"Canada's biggest cities move to regulate Airbnb, but it's no easy task

Critics warn that enforcing municipal regulations on short-term rentals can be difficult

... If that regulation passes, Toronto city staff anticipate a significant reduction in Airbnb listings in the city. Approximately 3,200 properties listed for rent on Airbnb in 2016 would be removed, according to Toronto's proposed regulations, leaving about 7,600 authorized listings in principal residences."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/airbnb- ... -1.4164056
 
tdma800
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 2977
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 am

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:42 am

instead of complaining an drooling about what others make from airbnb work to make yourself better instead of trying to bring others down below your level
 
pricedout
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:30 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:48 pm

tdma800 wrote:

Its a sherlock moment.  People actually in Vancouver know that for as long as one can remember, Canada doesnt have the filthy loans like they do in America.

Have you seen this news piece?

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... in-the-red

Risky mortgages, shadow bankers threaten Vancouver housing market's stability

Massive and risky home loans are increasing in number across Metro Vancouver, while mortgage fraud cases are also on the rise, connected to the growth of so-called “shadow banking,” a Postmedia investigation shows.
The trend of increasingly risky loans underlying Metro Vancouver’s high home prices is illustrated by Bank of Canada figures that show the rapid growth since 2014 of large mortgages made to people with relatively low incomes.
This is a growing danger for Vancouver’s real estate market, because under new tighter lending standards introduced for banks in fall 2016, the Bank of Canada says that many of these big mortgages can no longer be insured, and won’t be issued again by federally regulated lenders. 
As a result of the tighter federal lending rules, borrowers trying to buy million-dollar-plus properties in Vancouver’s market are increasingly taking out dangerous loans from shadow bankers in a fast-growing and poorly regulated financial market.
There is also evidence of growing links between shadow banks and traditional banks, according to the Bank of Canada’s June 2017 report, as people borrow large amounts from shadow lenders to use as down payments in order to qualify for lower-interest loans from federally regulated banks

First in a two-part series.
Massive and risky home loans are increasing in number across Metro Vancouver, while mortgage fraud cases are also on the rise, connected to the growth of so-called “shadow banking,” a Postmedia investigation shows.
The trend of increasingly risky loans underlying Metro Vancouver’s high home prices is illustrated by Bank of Canada figures that show the rapid growth since 2014 of large mortgages made to people with relatively low incomes.
This is a growing danger for Vancouver’s real estate market, because under new tighter lending standards introduced for banks in fall 2016, the Bank of Canada says that many of these big mortgages can no longer be insured, and won’t be issued again by federally regulated lenders. 
As a result of the tighter federal lending rules, borrowers trying to buy million-dollar-plus properties in Vancouver’s market are increasingly taking out dangerous loans from shadow bankers in a fast-growing and poorly regulated financial market.
There is also evidence of growing links between shadow banks and traditional banks, according to the Bank of Canada’s June 2017 report, as people borrow large amounts from shadow lenders to use as down payments in order to qualify for lower-interest loans from federally regulated banks.

“Price increases in Vancouver and Toronto have an element of speculation to them,” Bank of Canada Governor Stephen Poloz said last week, while issuing the bank’s biannual financial system review. The review showed “riskier characteristics are increasingly evident” in new mortgages.

A December 2016 Bank of Canada report estimates shadow lenders now account for $1.1 trillion in debt — about half as much as the traditional banking sector — and that over the past decade “these new players have become more important and have changed the face of the Canadian mortgage market … (as) tightening bank regulation can lead to migration of activity from the traditional banking sector to the shadow banking sector.”
Shadow lenders are non-bank lenders that increase the supply of credit in Canada’s financial system, without facing the regulatory oversight of banks. Critics say shadow banking is vulnerable to loose lending standards, mortgage fraud, money laundering, and collateral that is overly leveraged (also called re-hypothecated) — meaning debt backed by property assets is used over and over again by related lenders to issue more home loans, in ever riskier chains of debt.
Shadow lenders identified by Postmedia through a review of B.C. civil court filings, lending documents and regulatory filings, include mortgage investment corporations, hedge funds, and private lenders such as realtors, crowdfunding companies, real estate lawyers and mortgage brokers.
A number of cases involving these lenders contain allegations with characteristics similar to the fraudulent loans exposed in the aftermath of the U.S. subprime lending crisis of 2008. Postmedia’s review of over 30 regulatory or civil court cases shows a trend of allegations that home buyers and real estate professionals are involved in deceptive mortgage applications that include exaggerating the incomes of borrowers, forged documents of home ownership used by multiple borrowers to obtain mortgages, phoney claims of offshore assets used to back home loans, falsely inflated collateral accepted by subprime lenders to fund real estate development loans, and falsified CRA tax return documents.
For Hilliard MacBeth, an Alberta-based author and wealth manager, the Bank of Canada loan risk statistics and the related growth of shadow banking in Vancouver and Toronto herald a crisis. 
“These properties in Vancouver are so expensive that you need people either laundering money or loan fraud or people borrowing such large amounts of money that should never be allowed, in order to keep it going,” MacBeth said. “If everyone is reporting their incomes honestly in Vancouver, there is no way that housing prices can stay where they are.”
In B.C., the provincial regulator B.C. Financial Institutions Commission, known as Ficom, is in charge of monitoring the growing shadow banking sector. Postmedia’s review of Ficom enforcement hearings shows an increase in the number of alleged mortgage fraud cases in B.C., mostly linked to private mortgage lenders and mortgage brokers.
“We have experienced an increase in mortgage broker complaints in the last few years,” Chris Carter, acting registrar of mortgage brokers, confirmed. “About a third of our investigations relate to application fraud.”
The Bank of Canada warns of two key risks in Canada’s housing market.
The first is that property prices and household debt have reached such extremes in Vancouver and Toronto, that “just about anything” could trigger a correction, Poloz said last week. Highly indebted borrowers could be forced to sell in a correction, the Bank of Canada says, leading to further selling, tighter lending, and a potential domino effect on banks and shadow banks.
The other elevated risk is the potential for a shock from China’s volatile economy. China has its own shadow banking problems, the Bank of Canada says.
In China, “linkages between the banking and shadow banking systems are also becoming more complex and opaque, increasing the underlying credit risk,” the Bank of Canada’s December 2016 risk report says. “The experience of the 2007-09 global financial crisis showed that financial stability can be threatened by vulnerabilities originating in the shadow banking sector.”
As a result of the flood of money pouring from Mainland China into Vancouver real estate in recent years, some financial experts say they believe Canadian banks are directly exposed to shadow lending in China and the risks of so-called “ghost collateral” — meaning collateral that may not exist or is used continuously to secure loans for multiple borrowers.
Postmedia confirmed that Canadian banks are allowed by the federal regulator, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, to accept collateral from China to secure real estate mortgages in B.C.
“OSFI does not dictate what type of collateral (federally regulated banks) can accept,” spokeswoman Annik Faucher said. “Whether the borrower is foreign or domestic, OSFI (allows) financial institutions to compete effectively and take reasonable risks.”
One U.S. hedge fund manager, who did not want to be identified, said: “We all know that the ghost collateral is a huge deal, and we all know that the shadow banking and other Chinese influence in Vancouver is profound. The issue it that the ghost collateral ends up re-hypothecated and laundered. So by the time it shows up in Vancouver, it will likely just look like a rich Chinese cash buyer with a suitcase of money. “
 
yzfr1
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:35 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:30 pm

pricedout wrote:
tdma800 wrote:

Its a sherlock moment.  People actually in Vancouver know that for as long as one can remember, Canada doesnt have the filthy loans like they do in America.

Have you seen this news piece?

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... in-the-red

Risky mortgages, shadow bankers threaten Vancouver housing market's stability

Massive and risky home loans are increasing in number across Metro Vancouver, while mortgage fraud cases are also on the rise, connected to the growth of so-called “shadow banking,” a Postmedia investigation shows.
The trend of increasingly risky loans underlying Metro Vancouver’s high home prices is illustrated by Bank of Canada figures that show the rapid growth since 2014 of large mortgages made to people with relatively low incomes.
This is a growing danger for Vancouver’s real estate market, because under new tighter lending standards introduced for banks in fall 2016, the Bank of Canada says that many of these big mortgages can no longer be insured, and won’t be issued again by federally regulated lenders. 
As a result of the tighter federal lending rules, borrowers trying to buy million-dollar-plus properties in Vancouver’s market are increasingly taking out dangerous loans from shadow bankers in a fast-growing and poorly regulated financial market.
There is also evidence of growing links between shadow banks and traditional banks, according to the Bank of Canada’s June 2017 report, as people borrow large amounts from shadow lenders to use as down payments in order to qualify for lower-interest loans from federally regulated banks

First in a two-part series.
Massive and risky home loans are increasing in number across Metro Vancouver, while mortgage fraud cases are also on the rise, connected to the growth of so-called “shadow banking,” a Postmedia investigation shows.
The trend of increasingly risky loans underlying Metro Vancouver’s high home prices is illustrated by Bank of Canada figures that show the rapid growth since 2014 of large mortgages made to people with relatively low incomes.
This is a growing danger for Vancouver’s real estate market, because under new tighter lending standards introduced for banks in fall 2016, the Bank of Canada says that many of these big mortgages can no longer be insured, and won’t be issued again by federally regulated lenders. 
As a result of the tighter federal lending rules, borrowers trying to buy million-dollar-plus properties in Vancouver’s market are increasingly taking out dangerous loans from shadow bankers in a fast-growing and poorly regulated financial market.
There is also evidence of growing links between shadow banks and traditional banks, according to the Bank of Canada’s June 2017 report, as people borrow large amounts from shadow lenders to use as down payments in order to qualify for lower-interest loans from federally regulated banks.

“Price increases in Vancouver and Toronto have an element of speculation to them,” Bank of Canada Governor Stephen Poloz said last week, while issuing the bank’s biannual financial system review. The review showed “riskier characteristics are increasingly evident” in new mortgages.

A December 2016 Bank of Canada report estimates shadow lenders now account for $1.1 trillion in debt — about half as much as the traditional banking sector — and that over the past decade “these new players have become more important and have changed the face of the Canadian mortgage market … (as) tightening bank regulation can lead to migration of activity from the traditional banking sector to the shadow banking sector.”
Shadow lenders are non-bank lenders that increase the supply of credit in Canada’s financial system, without facing the regulatory oversight of banks. Critics say shadow banking is vulnerable to loose lending standards, mortgage fraud, money laundering, and collateral that is overly leveraged (also called re-hypothecated) — meaning debt backed by property assets is used over and over again by related lenders to issue more home loans, in ever riskier chains of debt.
Shadow lenders identified by Postmedia through a review of B.C. civil court filings, lending documents and regulatory filings, include mortgage investment corporations, hedge funds, and private lenders such as realtors, crowdfunding companies, real estate lawyers and mortgage brokers.
A number of cases involving these lenders contain allegations with characteristics similar to the fraudulent loans exposed in the aftermath of the U.S. subprime lending crisis of 2008. Postmedia’s review of over 30 regulatory or civil court cases shows a trend of allegations that home buyers and real estate professionals are involved in deceptive mortgage applications that include exaggerating the incomes of borrowers, forged documents of home ownership used by multiple borrowers to obtain mortgages, phoney claims of offshore assets used to back home loans, falsely inflated collateral accepted by subprime lenders to fund real estate development loans, and falsified CRA tax return documents.
For Hilliard MacBeth, an Alberta-based author and wealth manager, the Bank of Canada loan risk statistics and the related growth of shadow banking in Vancouver and Toronto herald a crisis. 
“These properties in Vancouver are so expensive that you need people either laundering money or loan fraud or people borrowing such large amounts of money that should never be allowed, in order to keep it going,” MacBeth said. “If everyone is reporting their incomes honestly in Vancouver, there is no way that housing prices can stay where they are.”
In B.C., the provincial regulator B.C. Financial Institutions Commission, known as Ficom, is in charge of monitoring the growing shadow banking sector. Postmedia’s review of Ficom enforcement hearings shows an increase in the number of alleged mortgage fraud cases in B.C., mostly linked to private mortgage lenders and mortgage brokers.
“We have experienced an increase in mortgage broker complaints in the last few years,” Chris Carter, acting registrar of mortgage brokers, confirmed. “About a third of our investigations relate to application fraud.”
The Bank of Canada warns of two key risks in Canada’s housing market.
The first is that property prices and household debt have reached such extremes in Vancouver and Toronto, that “just about anything” could trigger a correction, Poloz said last week. Highly indebted borrowers could be forced to sell in a correction, the Bank of Canada says, leading to further selling, tighter lending, and a potential domino effect on banks and shadow banks.
The other elevated risk is the potential for a shock from China’s volatile economy. China has its own shadow banking problems, the Bank of Canada says.
In China, “linkages between the banking and shadow banking systems are also becoming more complex and opaque, increasing the underlying credit risk,” the Bank of Canada’s December 2016 risk report says. “The experience of the 2007-09 global financial crisis showed that financial stability can be threatened by vulnerabilities originating in the shadow banking sector.”
As a result of the flood of money pouring from Mainland China into Vancouver real estate in recent years, some financial experts say they believe Canadian banks are directly exposed to shadow lending in China and the risks of so-called “ghost collateral” — meaning collateral that may not exist or is used continuously to secure loans for multiple borrowers.
Postmedia confirmed that Canadian banks are allowed by the federal regulator, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, to accept collateral from China to secure real estate mortgages in B.C.
“OSFI does not dictate what type of collateral (federally regulated banks) can accept,” spokeswoman Annik Faucher said. “Whether the borrower is foreign or domestic, OSFI (allows) financial institutions to compete effectively and take reasonable risks.”
One U.S. hedge fund manager, who did not want to be identified, said: “We all know that the ghost collateral is a huge deal, and we all know that the shadow banking and other Chinese influence in Vancouver is profound. The issue it that the ghost collateral ends up re-hypothecated and laundered. So by the time it shows up in Vancouver, it will likely just look like a rich Chinese cash buyer with a suitcase of money. “


"A December 2016 Bank of Canada report estimates shadow lenders now account for $1.1 trillion in debt — about half as much as the traditional banking sector — and that over the past decade “these new players have become more important and have changed the face of the Canadian mortgage market … (as) tightening bank regulation can lead to migration of activity from the traditional banking sector to the shadow banking sector.”

So how dose the average person find this shadow bank? 1.1 trillion you say? Apple the biggest company in the world only has $250 billion USD in cash. So some how "Shadow lenders identified by Postmedia through a review of B.C. civil court filings, lending documents and regulatory filings, include mortgage investment corporations, hedge funds, and private lenders such as realtors, crowdfunding companies, real estate lawyers and mortgage brokers." these guys raised 1.1 trillion to lend out, nice. Amazing no one has ever heard of this before.  For ever 2 regular mortgages lent, 1 is suppose to be by shadow banking.


Makes Bernard Madoff ponzi scheme look like childs play. Prosecutors estimated the size of the fraud to be $64.8 billion, based on the amounts in the accounts of Madoff's 4,800 clients as of November 30, 2008.
 
tdma800
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 2977
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 am

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:19 pm

People that are actually in Canada know that things are different here. Americans lend to everyone more easily from just a credit card all the way to a mortgage.  
 
thinktom
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1694
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:51 pm

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:22 pm

Still posting 'bombshells' eh Geyser?

I guess if your 'bubble bombshell' still hasn't exploded after 10-15 + yrs you gotta' find something else, huh? 

;-)

Love, Tom xoxo
PS-Joking!! 
 
Geyser
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 3569
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:26 pm
Location: In a van down by the river

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:30 pm

thinktom wrote:
Still posting 'bombshells' eh Geyser?

I guess if your 'bubble bombshell' still hasn't exploded after 10-15 + yrs you gotta' find something else, huh? 

;-)

Love, Tom xoxo
PS-Joking!! 

Hello Thinktom, nice to hear from you. Not many old-timers left since we lost Horton. It turned a bit boring without his humour, then TDMA created more damage with his repetitive drivel and drove attendance lower. Sad.

I'm first to admit that my slow conversion from uber-bull to moderate bear was highly premature, but I continue to believe that the market always works in cycles. The bigger the bubble, the bigger the bust. 

It's interesting to see what's happening in Toronto, a possible harbinger of things to come in Vancouver?

All the best to you, please keep posting, we need more folks like you to offset the current problem with drivel hogs.
 
tdma800
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 2977
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:12 am

Re: Bombshell for some Airbnb users

Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:32 pm

Geyser wrote:
thinktom wrote:
Still posting 'bombshells' eh Geyser?

I guess if your 'bubble bombshell' still hasn't exploded after 10-15 + yrs you gotta' find something else, huh? 

;-)

Love, Tom xoxo
PS-Joking!! 

 repetitive drivel and drove attendance lower. Sad.



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