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Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:43 pm

Eyes. Descendents you mean. We won't sue. We don't complain. We are resilient. We are just indicating what we feel is just, fair and just right.

I already ponted out. Event poor communal east Indians aren't whining like these great productive "canadians"

Think about it, if you "pioneeers" are so upholding and supportive of this percieved Canadian dream, why are your leaders courting Chinese heritage persons to become Canadian?

Some of them have gave up and left for greener pastures. They tried based on hopeful promise only to realize they've been duped by exaggerated marketing

Give them credit. They put and risk their money. False promise. Shit market. Hostile "whiteys" put up with guys like really real. Ungrateful to their sacrifice only because some xenos would rather hate than appreciate.

I'll say it again. It is much better to court wealthy productive citizens than third world refugees.

I understand the frustration of people priced put of van but there is always Kamloops kolelowna chilliwack etc. Not everyone else can afford a ferrari. The powers in control never planned Life in paradise to be cheap and easy
 
westcoastfella
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1582
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:11 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:52 pm

Demonizer wrote:
you have some points but some of these discriminatory practices need to stop.
even though caucasians do hold the majority of government jobs there are non caucasian faces showing up all the time.
however things like voting and such most canadian people don't even care about. 
  • they cannot vote in our elections (no one cares, if voting really mattered they wouldn't let us do it)
  • they cannot run for office provincially or federally (no one cares not many running for office anyways)
  • they pay extra money to go to our universities (no one cares but they should at this unethical practice)
  • they must live in Canada for a certain amount of time (no one cares)
  • their PR or less status can be revoked at any time (no one cares)
  • they accept that Canadian citizens get preference for employment (no one cares, they start own business)
  • they cannot hold national government jobs (no one cares, not a desired job)
  • they have to pay an extra tax to buy a home (people care because it is a legalized theft)

I'm not sure what to say... if you don't care about being able to participate in the country you decide to call home, why should Canadians care about you?  If that's the attitude of most of the new Canadians from China, I'd have no problem raising the house tax even further.  At least it would help to weed out the foreigners that just want to come here, own real estate, and not contribute anything further.

the point of this article is not to illustrate the foreign tax,

it's to illustrate that the intent of the tax was a bit misguided and are hurting innocent people.

but it's not surprising, there are a lot of hurt inflicted on innocent people.

you can be stuck at a stoplight and you pick up your phone to look at it and will be dinged with a $367 fine.

so just because something is commonly discriminatory, it does not mean it is right.

The interesting thing here is that you seem to equate "tax" with "punishment".  

Taxes are a necessity for a social welfare state like Canada.  Most of the things that you (I'm assuming you are an immigrant) like about Canada are there because of taxes.  They are not put into place to punish people.  Fines are for punishment, and are designed to deter behaviour that we as a society don't want to condone.

another issue is that even if you are not a foreign buyer subject to a 15% tax, you will still be labeled a foreigner regardless. that's the problem. the false imagery represented of what a canadian and what a foreigner is. on paper it's easy, in real life, not so easy to differentiate, distinguish and identify.

labeling certain people the perpetual foreigner, 

and also have been subjected to model minority myths which limit their accessibility to services, help and support

you face more discrimination with police, medical service, law service, etc etc. the list goes on.

I don't think that most people have a predisposed image of what "Canadian" is anymore - there are Canadians of all colours and identities now, and the country is fundamentally different than it was even 20 years ago.  We're pretty egalitarian as countries go.

Your own views, biases and prejudices... they sound more like YOU problems than general problems.
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:54 pm

To put it simply. It's not possible to consider gold the same value as lead.

This is the biggest bull run in the history of vancouver

I don't feel that anyone wasnt warned especially with the government led best place on earth and 2010 winter olympic campaign.

I think that the obvious signals and indications were just not taken seriously or just plainly not recognized. And to be honest, the same complainers are just upset they missed the run. But justify their lack of action on people who acted accordingly. I know this mentality. I grew up with this here in Canada. It's not their fault. It's just that the powers that be did not emphasize the impending d3mand they were pursuing. That is what I mean by moving on away from regular Joe average Canadian. It's no insult. It's just the lack of preparation for the real world
 
westcoastfella
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1582
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:11 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:59 pm

Demonizer wrote:
I understand the frustration of people priced put of van but there is always Kamloops kolelowna chilliwack etc. Not everyone else can afford a ferrari. The powers in control never planned  Life  in paradise to be cheap and easy

I understand the frustration of people being taxed because they want to live in Vancouver... but there is always Kamloops, Kelowna, Chilliwack etc for those people as well.  The power in control never guaranteed that new taxes would not ever be implemented ever again.
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:04 pm

westcoastfella wrote:
Demonizer wrote:
you have some points but some of these discriminatory practices need to stop.
even though caucasians do hold the majority of government jobs there are non caucasian faces showing up all the time.
however things like voting and such most canadian people don't even care about. 
  • they cannot vote in our elections (no one cares, if voting really mattered they wouldn't let us do it)
  • they cannot run for office provincially or federally (no one cares not many running for office anyways)
  • they pay extra money to go to our universities (no one cares but they should at this unethical practice)
  • they must live in Canada for a certain amount of time (no one cares)
  • their PR or less status can be revoked at any time (no one cares)
  • they accept that Canadian citizens get preference for employment (no one cares, they start own business)
  • they cannot hold national government jobs (no one cares, not a desired job)
  • they have to pay an extra tax to buy a home (people care because it is a legalized theft)

I'm not sure what to say... if you don't care about being able to participate in the country you decide to call home, why should Canadians care about you?  If that's the attitude of most of the new Canadians from China, I'd have no problem raising the house tax even further.  At least it would help to weed out the foreigners that just want to come here, own real estate, and not contribute anything further.

the point of this article is not to illustrate the foreign tax,

it's to illustrate that the intent of the tax was a bit misguided and are hurting innocent people.

but it's not surprising, there are a lot of hurt inflicted on innocent people.

you can be stuck at a stoplight and you pick up your phone to look at it and will be dinged with a $367 fine.

so just because something is commonly discriminatory, it does not mean it is right.

The interesting thing here is that you seem to equate "tax" with "punishment".  

Taxes are a necessity for a social welfare state like Canada.  Most of the things that you (I'm assuming you are an immigrant) like about Canada are there because of taxes.  They are not put into place to punish people.  Fines are for punishment, and are designed to deter behaviour that we as a society don't want to condone.

another issue is that even if you are not a foreign buyer subject to a 15% tax, you will still be labeled a foreigner regardless. that's the problem. the false imagery represented of what a canadian and what a foreigner is. on paper it's easy, in real life, not so easy to differentiate, distinguish and identify.

labeling certain people the perpetual foreigner, 

and also have been subjected to model minority myths which limit their accessibility to services, help and support

you face more discrimination with police, medical service, law service, etc etc. the list goes on.

I don't think that most people have a predisposed image of what "Canadian" is anymore - there are Canadians of all colours and identities now, and the country is fundamentally different than it was even 20 years ago.  We're pretty egalitarian as countries go.

Your own views, biases and prejudices... they sound more like YOU problems than general problems.

Wcf. I don't disagree. But reality has shown me otherwise. No I'm not immigrant. Born and raised. I won't plead victim. I respect your opinion. I understand your opinion. But my main argument is I don't think the venom and hatred for hardworking people is justified. We are all humans. I have been target of hatred for no good reason and although it was bad in the 80s and improved slightly in the 90s. I see that it's just getting worse. It's too bad that hardworki gAsian faces are now synonymous with some sort of percieced evil foreign sentiments when you can see from the article these are just intelligent people. And they are hated for their intelligence and success. Read the article. These are not evil ppl as people like to do quickly paint them
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:12 pm

A point

Metro vancouver had been so undervalued for so long

Canada is low population needing investment

Local are complacent. Not buying. Not caring

For decades undervalued

What did you expect our government to do.?

Wait and hope?

They take action. Too much laziness and undervalued the greatest nation on earth.

Sorry but looking for appreciative citizens was a desperation move.

Not a slight on Canadians.

Don't misconstrue

It's purely business and financial.

Don't get mad. It's business
 
eyesthebye2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:41 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:20 pm

Demonizer wrote:
"Canada is going to just be another province of China"

That's the point.

China 2.0

once Chinese people become more ubiquitous than they already are, as ubiquitous as English or Scottish people people will realize they are probably the best type of people to become Canadians.

Canada needs some more guidance and who better than successful family oriented, education oriented, home valuing people.

the new face of Canada is emerging and it's a good thing. the previous occupants fucked up.


The new face of Canada is mixed ethnicity. Daughters and sons of the newly arrived mainland Chinese will mix with locals to create individuals who are smarter, more attractive, more creative, healthier, and are less susceptible to discrimination.
The fact that you keep touting Chinese over any other ethnicity tells me that youve failed to create one of these new faces...and that you dont understand how society benefits by it.
 
westcoastfella
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1582
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:11 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:32 pm

Demonizer wrote:
Wcf. I don't disagree. But reality has shown me otherwise.  No I'm not immigrant. Born and raised.  I won't plead victim. I respect your opinion. I understand your opinion.  But my main argument is I don't think the venom and hatred for hardworking people is justified. We are all humans.  I have been target of hatred for no good reason and although it was bad in the 80s and improved slightly in the 90s. I see that it's just getting worse. It's too bad that hardworki gAsian faces are now synonymous with some sort of percieced evil foreign sentiments when you can see from the article these are just intelligent people. And they are hated for their intelligence and success. Read the article. These are not evil ppl as people like to do quickly paint them

Who has said anything about dislike for hardworking immigrants?  My parents, and my wife's parents, were hard working immigrants.  90% of the people I've known in my life had parents that were hard working immigrants (or who are themselves hard working immigrants).  For the most part, they came to Canada and became citizens as fast as they could, worked hard at whatever their occupation was, raised families, etc.  They are the backbone of this country, and as our domestic birth rates continue to fall, will continue to fuel its growth in coming years.

I did read the article, when it came out.  The (no doubt very carefully chosen) people in the article seem nice.  However, from what I can tell, they are not hard working immigrants.  They are retirees - they worked their lives in China, and once they were able to, left for Canada, bought houses, and now spend their time doing retirement things.  They will not necessarily help to build a society here - although with luck their kids will stay here and do so.
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:52 pm

A point

Metro vancouver had been so undervalued for so long

Canada is low population needing investment

Local are complacent. Not buying. Not caring

For decades undervalued

What did you expect our government to do.?

Wait and hope?

They take action. Too much laziness and undervalued the greatest nation on earth.

Sorry but looking for appreciative citizens was a desperation move.

Not a slight on Canadians.

Don't misconstrue

It's purely business and financial.

Don't get mad. It's business
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:03 pm

westcoastfella wrote:
Demonizer wrote:
you have some points but some of these discriminatory practices need to stop.
even though caucasians do hold the majority of government jobs there are non caucasian faces showing up all the time.
however things like voting and such most canadian people don't even care about. 
  • they cannot vote in our elections (no one cares, if voting really mattered they wouldn't let us do it)
  • they cannot run for office provincially or federally (no one cares not many running for office anyways)
  • they pay extra money to go to our universities (no one cares but they should at this unethical practice)
  • they must live in Canada for a certain amount of time (no one cares)
  • their PR or less status can be revoked at any time (no one cares)
  • they accept that Canadian citizens get preference for employment (no one cares, they start own business)
  • they cannot hold national government jobs (no one cares, not a desired job)
  • they have to pay an extra tax to buy a home (people care because it is a legalized theft)

I'm not sure what to say... if you don't care about being able to participate in the country you decide to call home, why should Canadians care about you?  If that's the attitude of most of the new Canadians from China, I'd have no problem raising the house tax even further.  At least it would help to weed out the foreigners that just want to come here, own real estate, and not contribute anything further.

the point of this article is not to illustrate the foreign tax,

it's to illustrate that the intent of the tax was a bit misguided and are hurting innocent people.

but it's not surprising, there are a lot of hurt inflicted on innocent people.

you can be stuck at a stoplight and you pick up your phone to look at it and will be dinged with a $367 fine.

so just because something is commonly discriminatory, it does not mean it is right.

The interesting thing here is that you seem to equate "tax" with "punishment".  

Taxes are a necessity for a social welfare state like Canada.  Most of the things that you (I'm assuming you are an immigrant) like about Canada are there because of taxes.  They are not put into place to punish people.  Fines are for punishment, and are designed to deter behaviour that we as a society don't want to condone.

another issue is that even if you are not a foreign buyer subject to a 15% tax, you will still be labeled a foreigner regardless. that's the problem. the false imagery represented of what a canadian and what a foreigner is. on paper it's easy, in real life, not so easy to differentiate, distinguish and identify.

labeling certain people the perpetual foreigner, 

and also have been subjected to model minority myths which limit their accessibility to services, help and support

you face more discrimination with police, medical service, law service, etc etc. the list goes on.

I don't think that most people have a predisposed image of what "Canadian" is anymore - there are Canadians of all colours and identities now, and the country is fundamentally different than it was even 20 years ago.  We're pretty egalitarian as countries go.

Your own views, biases and prejudices... they sound more like YOU problems than general problems.

I love what you said. Bravo. I hope I'm wrong and the face of canada can be Caucasian and Asian with the same merit as opposed to the lily white squeaky clean assumption of percieved good Canadian can be a productive Canadian and traditional caucasians without the preconceived perceptions of evil Chinese. That's my point. There's too much negativity directed at foreigners. It's unwarranted
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:07 pm

westcoastfella wrote:
Demonizer wrote:
Wcf. I don't disagree. But reality has shown me otherwise.  No I'm not immigrant. Born and raised.  I won't plead victim. I respect your opinion. I understand your opinion.  But my main argument is I don't think the venom and hatred for hardworking people is justified. We are all humans.  I have been target of hatred for no good reason and although it was bad in the 80s and improved slightly in the 90s. I see that it's just getting worse. It's too bad that hardworki gAsian faces are now synonymous with some sort of percieced evil foreign sentiments when you can see from the article these are just intelligent people. And they are hated for their intelligence and success. Read the article. These are not evil ppl as people like to do quickly paint them

Who has said anything about dislike for hardworking immigrants?  My parents, and my wife's parents, were hard working immigrants.  90% of the people I've known in my life had parents that were hard working immigrants (or who are themselves hard working immigrants).  For the most part, they came to Canada and became citizens as fast as they could, worked hard at whatever their occupation was, raised families, etc.  They are the backbone of this country, and as our domestic birth rates continue to fall, will continue to fuel its growth in coming years.

I did read the article, when it came out.  The (no doubt very carefully chosen) people in the article seem nice.  However, from what I can tell, they are not hard working immigrants.  They are retirees - they worked their lives in China, and once they were able to, left for Canada, bought houses, and now spend their time doing retirement things.  They will not necessarily help to build a society here - although with luck their kids will stay here and do so.

Why so critical? Retirees are supposed to relax. Whether in canada usa or Mexico. Why can't non Retirees just live in peace? Like they do in other retirement community like Thailand or any other place without constant locals bitching. Whistler is expensive. This is no different
 
reallyreal2
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:30 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:48 am

Demonizer - why aren't you crying about discrimination against Canadians who might have a hard time gaming the system compared to foreigners?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est ... e31869946/

Seriously, where can I send you a soother and a set of diapers?
 
westcoastfella
Real Estate Talker
Posts: 1582
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:11 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:51 am

Demonizer wrote:
Why so critical? Retirees are supposed to relax.  Whether in canada usa or Mexico.  Why can't non Retirees just live in peace? Like they do in other retirement community like Thailand or any other place without constant locals bitching.  Whistler is expensive. This is no different

I'm not critical of retirees, they've put in their time and are enjoying the fruits of their labours, and they can do what they like.  But their days of being "hard working" immigrants are long behind them now, and they are not going to make the same contribution to our society that a young professional couple or small business owner immigrant will.
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:13 am

VanLord wrote:
Demonizer wrote:

the new face of Canada is emerging and it's a good thing. the previous occupants fucked up.

Sounds like you are pretty racist, most of your comments in this section have racist undertones.  Canada may not be perfect but its been a pretty great place for many years, if its so fucked up, why are all these people trying to come live here. 

this comment may have been a bit harsh. not all previous occupants fucked up. only some
 
Demonizer
Real Estate Talker
Topic Author
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:06 am

Re: The dragon in the room: Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers

Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:28 am

westcoastfella wrote:
Demonizer wrote:
you have some points but some of these discriminatory practices need to stop.
even though caucasians do hold the majority of government jobs there are non caucasian faces showing up all the time.
however things like voting and such most canadian people don't even care about. 
  • they cannot vote in our elections (no one cares, if voting really mattered they wouldn't let us do it)
  • they cannot run for office provincially or federally (no one cares not many running for office anyways)
  • they pay extra money to go to our universities (no one cares but they should at this unethical practice)
  • they must live in Canada for a certain amount of time (no one cares)
  • their PR or less status can be revoked at any time (no one cares)
  • they accept that Canadian citizens get preference for employment (no one cares, they start own business)
  • they cannot hold national government jobs (no one cares, not a desired job)
  • they have to pay an extra tax to buy a home (people care because it is a legalized theft)

I'm not sure what to say... if you don't care about being able to participate in the country you decide to call home, why should Canadians care about you?  If that's the attitude of most of the new Canadians from China, I'd have no problem raising the house tax even further.  At least it would help to weed out the foreigners that just want to come here, own real estate, and not contribute anything further.

the point of this article is not to illustrate the foreign tax,

it's to illustrate that the intent of the tax was a bit misguided and are hurting innocent people.

but it's not surprising, there are a lot of hurt inflicted on innocent people.

you can be stuck at a stoplight and you pick up your phone to look at it and will be dinged with a $367 fine.

so just because something is commonly discriminatory, it does not mean it is right.

The interesting thing here is that you seem to equate "tax" with "punishment".  

Taxes are a necessity for a social welfare state like Canada.  Most of the things that you (I'm assuming you are an immigrant) like about Canada are there because of taxes.  They are not put into place to punish people.  Fines are for punishment, and are designed to deter behaviour that we as a society don't want to condone.

another issue is that even if you are not a foreign buyer subject to a 15% tax, you will still be labeled a foreigner regardless. that's the problem. the false imagery represented of what a canadian and what a foreigner is. on paper it's easy, in real life, not so easy to differentiate, distinguish and identify.

labeling certain people the perpetual foreigner, 

and also have been subjected to model minority myths which limit their accessibility to services, help and support

you face more discrimination with police, medical service, law service, etc etc. the list goes on.

I don't think that most people have a predisposed image of what "Canadian" is anymore - there are Canadians of all colours and identities now, and the country is fundamentally different than it was even 20 years ago.  We're pretty egalitarian as countries go.

Your own views, biases and prejudices... they sound more like YOU problems than general problems.

the tax is only in one city in Canada which as far as i've heard is pretty rare. most countries apply the tax to the entire country. i could be wrong.
with regards to fines or tax, maybe the resulting high cost of housing is punishment. it's punishment for not getting into the market. we all know the saying if you snooze, you lose. i guess inaction does have consequence sadly. everyone has experienced loss
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