Investor immigration and Vancouver RE

[unicas]

A recent report on impact of investor immigration reveals the follows:

2011 investor immigrations approval by country

Country - Chinese applicants-Percentage of total applicants

Canadian federal program 697 99%
Quebec 3098 62%
U.S.A. 2969 75%
Hong Kong 2300 92%
Australia 2000 57%
Britian 85 26%

Not on this list are Canada`s provincial programs other than Quebec. The report specially mentioned PEI, in 2005 the first 40 investor immigrants arrived PEI from China, by 2009, that number became 1015. But PEI was just a springboard, also in their hands were tickets to Toronto or Vancouver.

Now Canada has indefinitely stopped the investor immigrants program, stopped family unions for aging parents program, cancelled 230,000 skilled workers applications. Canada is essentially stopping tens of billions into the Country each year. Since most of those money will end up in areas like Vancouver West, Richmond, West Vancouver, it impact will be immense. The only way those areas can sustain its skyhigh level property price is continuous inflow of capital which has never stopped since late 1980s. Now it seems Canada is determined to close such door.

If you think the economy is bad, be reminded this is only the continuous. The repercussions are yet to be felt. They are coming. Vanpro will have plenty of ammunition in the foreseeable future to broadcast how pathetic our economy is. And he should thank Steven Harper for making him look smart. Housing price in Vancouver will gradually move towards the equilibrium where economic fundamentals work the magic. For decades, construction is our economy. We have hardly other backbone of economy to talk about. Hundreds of thousands of family that work in the trade, from Surrey all the way to Chilliwack will be affected big time and they are not prepared for the forthcoming hardship. Our municipal governments also are not prepared for sudden drop of property tax and develement fees.

It will be bleak.

Also on the report is America`s investor immigration program
Year -Total- Chinese

2006- 486- 100
2007- 776- 100
2008 -1257- 300
2009- 1028- 200
2010- 1955- 800
2011 3805 2969

[jesse1]

Now it seems Canada is determined to close such door

Part of the problem was Canadians trying to keep up with the Wangs. Don't blame the government, blame humanity for wanting the Easy Button. The latest newsletter from Michael Pettis is a must-read.

[eyesthebye]

unicas,

Most of us don't have an issue with immigrants wanting to become Canadian. The problem we have is that these folks don't want to become Canadian and contribute...they want to an exit strategy from their country if they ever need to get out.
They want freebees when they get here - education, daycare funding, medical coverage, etc. They want to pay ZERO taxes while taking advantage of everything our taxes contribute to.
I'm not unhappy they're not coming even if it means less equity in my home.
Bring us the hard working, honest folk who want to work and contribute and call themselves Canadian.

[gse36]

unicas,

Most of us don't have an issue with immigrants wanting to become Canadian. The problem we have is that these folks don't want to become Canadian and contribute...they want to an exit strategy from their country if they ever need to get out.
They want freebees when they get here - education, daycare funding, medical coverage, etc. They want to pay ZERO taxes while taking advantage of everything our taxes contribute to.
I'm not unhappy they're not coming even if it means less equity in my home.
Bring us the hard working, honest folk who want to work and contribute and call themselves Canadian.

hit the nail on the head. the ones who work here, and contribute, pay their taxes, are more valuable

the ones who use it like a haven do nothing by raise house prices for the hard working peeps (more debt, less money to spend in economy), and suck out of the system more than they put in (school, healthcare, etc).to them, houses are just gambling chips (as evidenced by those who purchase multiple properties for flipping). that $12k tax they paid on their $100k car is nothing. the hard working couple who makes $80k/year pays $20k+income tax a YEAR.

a lot of the investor immigration is not genuine. it is strategically set up shell companies passed around from immigrant to immigrant used to gain immigration with the least effort.

[instigator]

^^you can't say they pay zero taxes. all that stuff is just a myth to demonize all immigrants. Immigrant is such a dirty word nowadays and usually there is nothing positive being labelled an immigrant. Don't investor class immigrants have to invest significant amount of money? When they spend a lot of money they pay tax on it.

there are enough working class immigrants already. they work at jobs most people wont do. There are refugees and rich ones.

i would prefer the rich ones than refugees and working poor who's children are more susceptible to gangsterism and crime.

we Live in Vancouver, not LA or Mexico city or any other number of peasant ridden cities.

[gse36]

^^you can't say they pay zero taxes. all that stuff is just a myth to demonize all immigrants. Immigrant is such a dirty word nowadays and usually there is nothing positive being labelled an immigrant. Don't investor class immigrants have to invest significant amount of money? When they spend a lot of money they pay tax on it.

there are enough working class immigrants already. they work at jobs most people wont do. There are refugees and rich ones.

i would prefer the rich ones than refugees and working poor who's children are more susceptible to gangsterism and crime.

buy a $2M home.. PTT of $38k. - one time
buy a $100k mercedes. taxes of $12k. - once every 3 years?
buy $10k clothes and spend $10k/year on dim sum and stuff. taxes of $2.4k

send 2 kids to school
4 people using health care.. all that is a drain on the system. more so than the minimal taxes they pay (at best $5k/year). even $6k/year of taxes is $50k of consumption a year.

the working class $80k household pays $20k taxes a year on income taxes along. then consumption taxes as well.

theres the overly rich (who use canada as a haven) and theres refugee/working poor. neither are desirable. in between is likely more desirable.

[instigator]

keeping kids healthy and educating them is good. That's the first step at being a Canadian.

would you prefer they come here as refugee and claim more than 1 welfare? get all school and medical free too?

i still prefer richer immigrants too poor ones. And i think you are just noticing the rich ones. By far there are more working class ones you don't see. They take the bus, they drive corollas and civics.

You are seeing the BMW's and mercedes and you see the Asian inside and your mind starts twirling. You have no idea if that Asian was born here or not.

[gse36]

keeping kids healthy and educating them is good. That's the first step at being a Canadian.

would you prefer they come here as refugee and claim more than 1 welfare?

no. no refugees. just proper Canadians. should have more like US regime. like have to be sponsored by a company. and that only happens if there is a shortage of workers in that field. (sorta like TN Visa/H1-B, etc).

that way most likely they are professional, educated, and employable

of course that would never happen in Canada b/c we don't have the sort of companies that are capable of pulling in such educated immigrants (Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc). So we are stuck with refugees and overly rich. both which strain the balance of the tax payers. (by taking out more from the system than they put in).

[eyesthebye]

keeping kids healthy and educating them is good. That's the first step at being a Canadian.

would you prefer they come here as refugee and claim more than 1 welfare? get all school and medical free too?

i still prefer richer immigrants too poor ones. And i think you are just noticing the rich ones. By far there are more working class ones you don't see. They take the bus, they drive corollas and civics.

You are seeing the BMW's and mercedes and you see the Asian inside and your mind starts twirling. You have no idea if that Asian was born here or not.

we have a social obligation to accept refugees - it's in our fabric as Canadians. We take a hugely disproportionate # of asylum seeking compared to most western countries.
We have acceptance rate of 62%, second only to Denmark at 74%. In fact, most northern European countries (Sweden, Finland, etc.) are very high acceptance rate - but I think the number of applicants is very low.
How do we compare with other high applicant countries...
US - 44%
UK - 44%
France - 20%
NewZ - 18%
Australia - 13%

we're trying to attract more immigrants who are, professional, English speaking, young, etc. Kenney has been all over the news with this message.
I agree, less ultra rich, less ultra poor - more ultra average

[gse36]

You are seeing the BMW's and mercedes and you see the Asian inside and your mind starts twirling. You have no idea if that Asian was born here or not.

Nope. BMWs and Mercedes does not make one rich ($40-100k does not make you rich). Buying $20M homes in University Lands cash, and other multi million dollar homes, or collecting multiple vacant land ($1.5M+) properties -- now that is Rich (at least to most peoples' standards). Even if you had to borrow the money to buy those, it means you still have a decently high net worth.

[unicas]

The problem we have is that these folks don't want to become Canadian and contribute...they want to an exit strategy from their country if they ever need to get out.
They want freebees when they get here - education, daycare funding, medical coverage, etc. They want to pay ZERO taxes while taking advantage of everything our taxes contribute to.

No disagreement here. As one whose entire net worth came from after tax money earned here, I feel the same resentment as you feel. Canada is their Plan B

But dont blame them for being not loyal to Canada. But why should they? When your great grand parents moved here, their loyalty stayed in the country where they came from. They remained their identity as Britons, Irish, Italian or German. But it started to change in the second generation immigrants. It is true for the Chinese as well.

Not to defend those rich folks, but I still think Canada as a whole benefits more than it gives. Much more. Yes they may not pay much tax and receive more benefits from the system then they contribute, but the money they spend here, houses, cars, services do generate major economic activities in this city and region. I would not trade them for refugees. Never. At least their children are most likely to be productive Canadian residents. What kind of social fabric refugees bring? take a tour of inner cities U.S.A. you will see why most of the illegal immigrants will never get out of the slum, generation after generation. are you sure that is the kind of social fabric we need? they cost the country, not just now, forever.

Bring us the hard working, honest folk who want to work and contribute and call themselves Canadian

where do you bring them from? we dont have the world class companies to attract the elites. we dont want to bring more brick layers to compete with our unemployed. We only need X number of domestic workers from the Philippines. Spain has over 50% unemployment rate among youth. You want to bring them? if they can get off their butt to find work at home, their country wont be on their knees for bailout.

Our latest immigration policies seems to encourage international students to come, study and become Canadians. Well make sense on paper but soon you will hear outcry from locals for unable to send their kids to Canadian universities. Most of the best Canadian universities are already too Asian.
Since we will import a quarter million people in not matter what, given all the options, I would think the investors immigrants class is the preferred class.

[curious]

soon you will hear outcry from locals for unable to send their kids to Canadian universities.

Why they would be unable? Canadians have RESP, student loans, scholarships etc.
If someone's children are lazy or stupid, don't make excuses, please.

[robert james]

Sounds like a bit of smoke and mirrors... What a surprise !!! Surely they will keep buying Vancouver real estate ???? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-1 ... scams.html

[eyesthebye]

soon you will hear outcry from locals for unable to send their kids to Canadian universities.

Why they would be unable? Canadians have RESP, student loans, scholarships etc.
If someone's children are lazy or stupid, don't make excuses, please.

we already here the outcry unicas.
I have family graduating from high school who cannot attend UBC because they give more and more space to foreign students. These foreign students pay 3-4x more for their education. I don't see this trend changing unless government steps in and limited the space alloted to non-Canadians.

[curious]

I have family graduating from high school who cannot attend UBC because they give more and more space to foreign students.

If some Canadian children have low grades and are not able to compete, it's fair that smarter foreign kids with high grades get these spaces. It's a world of globalization.